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> What if you get called by someone who is with the IRS?

FTFA, 3rd ¶: "If you are surprised to be hearing from us, you are not hearing from us," Koskinen said. "Our way of contacting you is by letter."


Except the article is wrong.

In 2010, I received a call from the IRS. Agent 0199475 wanted me to go to http://pay1040.com and pay my taxes.

Unsolicited call? Check. Asking me to use a 3rd party website? Check. Was curt with me when I asked how I could trust that he was with the IRS? Check.

In this case it was all legitimate. I looked up the IRS phone number on irs.gov, called back, and got a hold of the same guy.

I was a foreigner, which I think is why I was treated differently. Maybe domestic payers never receive phone calls, but I certainly did.


"pay1040.com" looks fake. They have a low-rent SSL certificate. Since they handle large amounts of money, they should have an EV cert. Their Trustwave seal leads to FIS, which is a big company that does back-end processing for banks and other financial services. Their Entrust seal just leads to Entrust's main page.

Yet they really are an IRS approved payment processor.[1]

[1] http://www.irs.gov/uac/Pay-Taxes-by-Credit-or-Debit-Card


Google and Facebook don't use EV certs either. EV cert's are no more secure than any other SSL certificates, they're just a bigger rip-off.


I use the same strategy when I get an "authoritative" phone call:

1) what is your official website? 2) where is your phone number listed on that website? 3) what is your name?

then i go to the official website (irs.gov or whatever in this case) get the official number, and ask for the person by name.

If it's the same person, then congrats it's all legit.


In the UK those protective measures don't work because of a difference in the way the phone systems work.

In the US when either party hangs up the phone the line is cleared; the call ends.

In the UK that only happens when the dialing party hangs up. The call is still connected if the dialed party hangs up. This used to be many hours. I think there's a 5 min limit now.

So, the scammer calls you; gives you the phone number and extension and name, and website. You hang up. You go to the real official gov website and see that the phone numbers given match. You then pick up your phone -- and the scammers play a fake dial tone; and you enter the number and they play a fake ring tone; then they "answer" the call.

This scam has been used to fleece people of their entire life savings - tens of thousands in one go, sometimes even hundreds of thousands of pounds. The scammers normally pretend to be the police investigating a criminal who works for your bank. They need you to transfer a bit of money into an account so they can trace it; then it builds up to a bit more.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6124056

There's an interview with someone who handed over £15,000 to the Microsoft fraudsters. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7868166

And these people do not get their money back! In England if you make a bank transfer to a fraudster it's your fault and you lost that money.

I don't think it's about being smart or not. Most people are generally trusting and compliant and scammers exploit that with a refined process that they've iterated on over hundreds of other victims.


I just confirmed this works on my BT landline, albeit with a 60 second timeout. I can't believe I never knew this was a thing


Yup; got a call from NCIS once (not the show, the real thing). The agent was more than happy to tell me what office she worked for and her name. I then looked up the number on navy.gov independently and got transferred back to her.

Fun fact: it was over a guy who was stealing equipment from the Navy and selling it online. Turns out they didn't want the equipment back (since it couldn't be re-deployed for security reasons). They just wanted me to testify against him. I believe he ended up pleading out once confronted so I never ended up testifying.


Yeah that works until... http://www.spoofcard.com/


The key part is that you're calling them back.

If someone fakes their caller ID candy you call the number they claimed to have, you're not going to reach the faker, you'll reach the legitimate owner of the number.



Yea this is also important when someone allegedly calls from your bank.


I have trouble with this story. I'm also a foreigner, and around approximately the same time (+/- 1 year) I made a mistake on my return and ended up owing some small amount like $150 or $200. They sent letters. I called them on the phone, and I mailed the check to an IRS office. They've also sent letters other times when I didn't owe money but should have filed with a different version of the form, and another time when I overpaid.

On general principle, I never deal with anything financial or legal over the phone. I listen if it seems legit, and then say 'Can you put it in writing? I like to have these things on paper.' I hope the call you received was an experiment which has since been abandoned by them.


Maybe they changed their minds about this in the five years since then, after seeing the potential for abuse. No idea if it's true, just speculation.


Good point!

As I think about it, the IRS agent mentioned that there was in fact a first contact by mail in my case. I had moved and didn't receive the letter.


An IRS agent would never say "Pay us now by wire transfer or we're going to arrest you."


Who is saying they would?


The scammers the article is about


Sure...but how does that relate to this subthread of comments?




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