good points, but yeah the reason i lump them together (even though I agree that C preprocessors vs. css vs. js vs. jvm abstraction are obviously very different technologies) is that in the context of this discussion, i see them as a layer of abstraction that basically mangles the ability for code analysis (whether it be static or in debugging) to happen in a way that feels comprehensive
for some technologies this is being alleviated with source maps, but it still feels like over-complication when there are library alternatives available (Underscore, as you point out). Because when it comes down to it you will need to debug & understand some language paradigms/quirks of the language you are transcompiling to, so it would behoove the developer to be as fluent in the target language as possible (& of course, coding natively in it to begin with promotes fluency...)
as the tools become stronger the danger disappears, yet the base language has simultaneously matured to the point where this extra technology may be nearing obsolescence... i understand in js there is some lag with web standards boards etc., but taking Java as an example, annotations and other language functions were added while simultaneously the libraries/containers (web frameworks, Spring, EE) got more powerful. It is a pretty strong & mature toolset probably mainly due to the language evolution always being forced back toward the core.
From the limited amount I know, the other JVM languages are implemented against the JVM spec which is matured in a similar way, thus facilitating easier implementation of language features & interoperability.
for some technologies this is being alleviated with source maps, but it still feels like over-complication when there are library alternatives available (Underscore, as you point out). Because when it comes down to it you will need to debug & understand some language paradigms/quirks of the language you are transcompiling to, so it would behoove the developer to be as fluent in the target language as possible (& of course, coding natively in it to begin with promotes fluency...)
as the tools become stronger the danger disappears, yet the base language has simultaneously matured to the point where this extra technology may be nearing obsolescence... i understand in js there is some lag with web standards boards etc., but taking Java as an example, annotations and other language functions were added while simultaneously the libraries/containers (web frameworks, Spring, EE) got more powerful. It is a pretty strong & mature toolset probably mainly due to the language evolution always being forced back toward the core.
From the limited amount I know, the other JVM languages are implemented against the JVM spec which is matured in a similar way, thus facilitating easier implementation of language features & interoperability.