I'm the guy who made this video, so I want adress some questions from this thread. Really interesting discussion by the way, I'm happy so many people take an interest in this film!
Not really family/adoption:
To be honest, the whole history of the Houshi family is kind of a mistery. There was no real documentation in paper back then. No photos, and paintings or such were only for rich people. Yet, the whole town kinda grew around the hot springs and this one hotel in particular. So the history of the hotel and the family is very much connected with the history of the town. That's also where the proof for the Guinness Bureau came from. They wouldn't just accept them saying "yea, we old."
What changed in 2011:
An even older hotel submitted their application.
Also: as far as I found out, that older hotel is not a straight "same-family" business, or at least not anymore. I'm a bit sceptical of that posted source below.
There's an association for family businesses older than 200 years AND still running, and that hotel is not part of that, Houshi is.
The daughters motivation:
I shot this film over the course of six days, in April and in June. When I was doing the interviews in April, the daughter didn't actually know that her father decided that she should take over. I was the one who told her during the interview (assuming then she was aware of it of course). She officially started in May, and when I came back in June, she was much more adjusted. She's actually doing pretty well.
There's also a second son, even working in the hotel, longer than the daughter. but according to the father, he's not smart enough to manage the inn. The daughter is actually much stronger and smarter than she thinks she is. That's why the father chose her.
In 1,300 years, no woman was the official owner of the inn. However, they were allowed to be "temporary owners" until the son came of age or someone was adopted. Yet, the father considers giving the daughter now the title of Zengoro. She would be the first woman in 1,300 years to wear that title. But it's not final yet. I consider going back there in a couple of years to see what's changed.
The first born son gets trained from day one to become the owner. The daughter wasn't properly prepared. Yet, she loves her family dearly and is caught between her love, obligation and duty. For someone carrying the weight of 1,300 years and 46 generations, she is doing remarkably well.
Thanks for the additional info, be great to see those on the page as I had the exact same questions.
Really like the movie - amazing photography, especially how the hot springs became like their own character through the sublime water shots.
I'd be really curious to hear more about how the hotel has changed over time and endured. I'd also be very interested to hear more about the daughter taking over as this is a microcosm of a lot of tradition bending taking place in the country.
I want to write an extended story about the whole thing and offer that to several media along with the video, just like I did previously with another short doc from Japan. So I kinda can't and won't give everything away under the video.
However, I try to answer questions or join a discussion when I can. This thread in particular seemed very interesting, whereas other comments elsewhere don't really make me join the discussion.
There's only so much you can tell with a short video on the internet. Everything can only be a glimpse into a 1,300 year old legacy, and into the mentality of three humans behind it.
Thank you for this video. It's extraordinary to contemplate a family business in operation for 13 centuries, and the personal sacrifices that must have been, and are still being made across that time to keep it going.
tell me about it... after the interviews, which were the first things I shot, I realized the tremendous weight of the millenia. The work on "Houshi" really brought me to my mental and physical limitations. I shot for hours everyday, without a break, because I tried so hard to capture everything. I was so very moved by their story and felt the need to tell the story in the best and most powerful way possible.
it was the best ryokan experience I ever had, albeit even more "japanese" than I expected. For example, every room has a personal staff, that does everything for you. I had dinner in my room, which he brought to me, and while eating he was just sitting there, making sure I got everything I needed. It felt a bit awkward, but it's their idea of service. And I guess if you don't stay there just by yourself, it's easier to ignore them. And the food was among the best I ever tasted.
I got some other short docs, but most of them only in German and not on the level of Houshi. Afterall, I am a student and still learning.
I was living in Japan September 2013 to September 2014 and I shot four films like this during that time. Two are done, two more are still being edited.
If I recall correctly, the grandfather of the current Zengoro was adopted. So since then, it's pretty much straight.
He showed me the pictures of his family. To his grandmother, who was "originally" Houshi, if you will, but not his biological grandmother, he refers to as "my grandma".
Houshi have a different understanding of family than we do. For them, "family" and "business" are the same thing. For example, the daughter never calls her parents by mom and dad while in the hotel, but by their titles (Okami and President)
[edit: got a bit confused who did what with grandma]
The title is correct because the title doesn't say "same bloodline for 1,300 years".
If you are arguing otherwise, feel free to tell all the adopted people out there that they really are not part of their respective families, and those who adopted others that the people they've adopted are just strangers in their homes.
The Roman emperors used to adopt the next chosen emperor and pass him the family name "Caesar", as did Julius Caesar, probably without trying to create a tradition, with Octavius.
No -- this was done by the 'Five Good Emperors' (Nerva, Trajan, Hadrian, Pious, Aurelius) and done more out of the lack of suitable male Heirs than of a notion to go outside the blood line. The Five Good Emperors ends to Aurelius, who -- coincidentally enough -- was the first to name his son as Heir. His son was Commodus, and was (by the account of contemporaneous, biased sources) a bad emperor -- although there is thought that many of his evils were embellished by detractor historians.
Otherwise, the title of Imperator/Augustus went to male blood heirs or usurping Generals (in one case, to a wealthy man who bought off the Praetorian Guard).
"Some males are now joining dating sites specifically made for men looking to become Mukoyōshi, and be adopted by families who need a male successor for their businesses."
I don't think anyone was arguing that adopted children are any less meaningful than biological children, but if a 60 year old business owner adopts a 40 year old manager who works at his company that's really not the same thing.
Exactly. This isn't some love relationship, it's about keeping the family name in the company. The manager loses his family name but gets the perk of inheriting a company out of it.
It is the same family, though it would be more amazing if they adopted and raised younger kids kids without consideration for whether they would inherit the business or not, and still manage to keep the business in the family for 1300 years.
But the act of passing the business down to non-blood related adults for 1300 years without going belly up is amazing.
So if you adopt a child and raise it as your own and that child takes over your business, is it still a "family business? Yes.
But can you say it's still a "family" business if it's gone through the Japanese custom of adult adoption? Arguably yes, because that person was brought into their family as a legitimate heir.
On the other hand you could argue that it's no different than a family business being sold in the western sense, it's just that in ancient Japan you couldn't really buy and sell businesses, they were owned by clans, so this was their mechanism for ensuring business continuity when there was no suitable male heir.
I'm not taking a stance on whether it's still a "real" family business, but it's important to understand that what the Japanese mean by "adoption" in this sense is not at all what westerners mean when they use that word.
My adopted Children when Adopted (10, 20, 22) They were in my house at 7, 11, 15 from the same mother. LONG story but I ended up adopted the two older ones when they were ready which wasn't till they were adults.
Nobody is arguing that adoption per se isn't the same as "the same family". The practice being described here is that the adoption is specifically adopting someone _because_ they're going to be the next owner of the business. I'm sure you can see that there's a salient difference between your case of adopting to build a family vs the case here of a 65 year old guy adopting his 50-year old successor as part of a tradition of that business.
I always wondered what would be morally just position on such long standing establishments when it comes to inheritance of responsibility.
On the one hand kids of such family shouldn't be tied to the family business if they don't find it fulfilling. On the other hand if they won't continue the line traditions might die and with them such old an interesting places as this one or any other.
But as datamatt writes, I guess adult adoption does help with that. If kids in such family feel that they are not up to the task, their parents can adopt a person (a man in this case) who will continue with this tradition.
One of the "world's oldest continuously ongoing independent company" [0] also hails from Japan, although it became a subsidiary of another company awhile back
It is simply amazing that a company has survived for so long. How have they managed to maintain revenue, maintain a culture, manage tremendous social and political change for centuries??
They were a temple repair company. It's steady work that hasn't changed a lot (everyone respects the temples - there are monasteries in Europe of comparable age to this company, but they were maintained by monks or "ordinary" builders), and not an easy market for outsiders to break into.
There is an anime about her very situation. It's called 花咲くいろは (Hanasaku Iroha). It's pretty interesting if you don't have any familiarity with traditional Japanese inns. Be warned: PA Works (the studio that created it) likes drama!
Sadly, even though she may show signs of not intending to continue the tradition, familial and societal pressure will force her to marry someone willing to take on the family name and carry on in the capacity of the owner and head of household. The history and prestige behind a 1,300 year old ryokan will outweigh a daughter's feelings about her marriage and future life.
Strangely a comment by the filmographer indicates that not only is she not being forced to marry someone but in fact the father has decided that the best thing for the Hotel is to appoint his daughter as a successor.
Realize you're talking about a 15 year span on a 1,300 year one. The changes we're seeing in media technology are a distraction for this company. It may well long outlast the Web.
Until 19th century promulgation of corporations mainly families, governments and religions could own property. The corporation allowed large groups of unrelated people to own property and pass it it on to new managers and owners. This filled the gap of having organization between the size of a small[family]business and a local government.
Of course there are isolated examples of corporations before the 19th century, but they tended to be the exception until the legal system got the property rights thing down. Governments were stingy granting corporate charters or long lifetimes.
Why did you choose to show a negative angle? For example, without context: 1) the father sounds macho, 2) the wife appears to have never been in love, 3) the girl is entirely unhappy.
I honestly didn't want to be it negative, but here's the thing:
the story is what it is.
I would loved for it to be more positive, but the state I interviewed them in, everything seemed gloomy. There's even a line from the father, which I cut, where he says it like:
"For Houshi, there has never been a worse time than this". this includes the many natural disasters they faced, when the entire ryokan went up in flames or when half the family went to war and they became some sort of hospital for the army's soldiers instead of a hotel.
This particular moment I captured now is indeed quite negative, hence the story feels like that. But it is the Houshi of that moment. If I would make it more positive with the material I got, I would feel that I betray them or fake the story. And going from the interviews, there are rarely any positive statements. I even ended my last interview with the daughter saying:
"everything you told me was so negative... I want the film to end on a positive note. Can you tell me something positive?" She contemplated for a while and then said two funny things. How she practices the Shamisen with her mother and feels like she is much better than her but would never say that. And also how she likes western style hotels much more than japanese style ryokan. But for several reasons, I couldn't use those lines.
1) the father's not macho, it's actually quite complex. as I said before, the family, and him in particular, have a very different understanding of what "family" is. There's no difference between family and business to him. Both are the same thing. It's easy for us to judge that, but it's how he was raised and his father before him. It's the way they walk. It's a cultural difference.
It took me a while to understand that and to accept his way. I tried to show and explain his situation in the film, why he's doing what he's doing, so others might understand. His only purpose in life is to keep the ryokan. Or else he alone would fuck up the entire history of the family. It's a big weight to carry, most of us can't even begin to comprehend.
that being said, he really was unbelievable sad when his son died. He is also a father, and not a monster. He's more a dutiful samurai.
2) yes and she never expected it. the wife is really obedient, she accepted her fate a long time ago and never asked for more. we might not like it, but that's how she is.
3) not entirely unhappy. the interview with her was her first chance to vent and to talk about some issues that she couldn't talk about with her parents or her friends in a long time. she is indeed quite lonely, so it was very emotional. She cried several times during the interview but I didn't want to embarass her like that by actually showing it. However, there are things she enjoys and finds happiness in. She travels to Tokyo once a month to visit friends, she also loves her small dog. There's also a second daughter, who's married with kids, and she enjoys spending time with them. And despite all, she loves and admires her parents dearly. Or else she wouldn't have come back. And as I said above, the interview was made in April and she is doing much better now.
a big theme of the film is the flow of time and the changes they bring. Houshi is always in motion. This film shows also just a moment in their long history, and it happens to be a very decisive one. When I traveled there, I didn't know about the whole situation. The film as it is, was the story unfolding to me.
Let me end with a quote from Zengoro:
"It’s not about choosing family or this ryokan.
The most important thing is, to keep this 1300 years old family business.
You would say we are in the bottom of the situation but some ancestors also thought their ages were in the bottom.
So people don’t notice when things are going well, then there is already some sign of going downhill.
And when you noticed that it’s going worse, things are already working towards a good way again."
Of course this is helped by the Asian valuing of ancestry. A families can be traced back two thousand years to when Chinese states were being established. (And some of these records were destroyed forever by communist excesses that did not value them.) Europe went through a period (400AD-800AD) were ancestry record keeping was not valued or done and continuity was lost.
I hope they find someone to adopt or marry who will care for this hotel.
As someone else pointed out, the daughter seems to be sad. I hope she is able to find someone to make her happy and is able to let her do what makes her happy.
Anyone having good luck watching the video? I have tried all 3 major browsers and none are buffering and playing the media seamlessly. Maybe it's Vimeo's player that is bad.
Then remove your video. If you're posting content to the Web, it's inherently downloadable. Most of us see that as a benefit.
1. I don't really care what you think.
2. You're not going to stop the vast majority of downloaders. Go study King Canute.
3. Video playback is vastly superior under local clients than in a Web app.
Controls are uniform, I don't have to deal with buffering, I can start/stop/pause without hunting for controls in different places in different GUIs, I can vary playback speed, have pitch adjust to speed, mute audio, etc., I can queue up several videos without hassling with browser tabs, and I don't have the problem of trying to track down which browser tab, in which window, on which desktop, is playing and/or making noise (it's far easier to find and track down my video player(s)).
While the Vimeo Web player is decent, it does a miserable job at starting/stopping and repositioning playback.
Most of what I download I delete immediately on viewing (or after a few seconds of playing). Some, yes, I keep. Most of it's for research purposes.
As it turns out, I skimmed through your video rather quickly with the sound off. Pretty, but frankly not all that interesting.
And you're pegging yourself as another creative who 1) I'd never have heard of before but 2) has identified himself as really not constitutionally suited to online realities.
The story of Cnut and the waves isn't supposed to show the King's hubris at trying to turn back the waves but rather his humility in accepting that, despite being an incredibly powerful man, his powers were nothing in comparison to the divine:
'Let all men know how empty and worthless is the power of kings, for there is none worthy of the name, but He whom heaven, earth, and sea obey by eternal laws.'
I have no idea why I'm replying of course, the tone of the rest of your comment is wilfully and unnecessarily confrontational. Or, in other words, you're just being an asshole.
As it turns out, I skimmed through your Hacker News post rather quickly with my eyes closed. Pretty, but frankly not all that interesting.
And you're pegging yourself as another commenter who 1) I'd never have heard of before but 2) has identified himself as really not constitutionally suited to the rules of online hospitality and kindness.
I'm not the one telling people how they should, or more specifically, are allowed to, consume the content I post online.
Posting generally-available content (e.g., not behind a paywall / registration system) is the equivalent of street performance or busking. The upside is that you get exposure and publicity. The downside is that you can't shake down everyone who walks past, or get up in their grill about how they are or aren't supposed to view (or listen to, or read, or ...) your particular performance piece.
Not really family/adoption:
To be honest, the whole history of the Houshi family is kind of a mistery. There was no real documentation in paper back then. No photos, and paintings or such were only for rich people. Yet, the whole town kinda grew around the hot springs and this one hotel in particular. So the history of the hotel and the family is very much connected with the history of the town. That's also where the proof for the Guinness Bureau came from. They wouldn't just accept them saying "yea, we old."
What changed in 2011: An even older hotel submitted their application.
Also: as far as I found out, that older hotel is not a straight "same-family" business, or at least not anymore. I'm a bit sceptical of that posted source below. There's an association for family businesses older than 200 years AND still running, and that hotel is not part of that, Houshi is.
The daughters motivation: I shot this film over the course of six days, in April and in June. When I was doing the interviews in April, the daughter didn't actually know that her father decided that she should take over. I was the one who told her during the interview (assuming then she was aware of it of course). She officially started in May, and when I came back in June, she was much more adjusted. She's actually doing pretty well. There's also a second son, even working in the hotel, longer than the daughter. but according to the father, he's not smart enough to manage the inn. The daughter is actually much stronger and smarter than she thinks she is. That's why the father chose her. In 1,300 years, no woman was the official owner of the inn. However, they were allowed to be "temporary owners" until the son came of age or someone was adopted. Yet, the father considers giving the daughter now the title of Zengoro. She would be the first woman in 1,300 years to wear that title. But it's not final yet. I consider going back there in a couple of years to see what's changed.
The first born son gets trained from day one to become the owner. The daughter wasn't properly prepared. Yet, she loves her family dearly and is caught between her love, obligation and duty. For someone carrying the weight of 1,300 years and 46 generations, she is doing remarkably well.