> sites like Stormfront do have a valid critique of the hypocrisy of liberal American Jews.
No, they don't. Don't legitimize their nonsense.
Also, Israel is not meant to be solely Jewish. It's just majority Jewish, just like other nations are majority Christian/white. That's a security measure, not an expression that Jews are inherently superior to other races—most Jews I know (including Israelis) support the inclusion of other people in their communities.
I share this critique, and I outlined it in my post, so I'm not legitimizing them, but rather outlining what things I think they are correct about.
I simply do not believe that Israel as a Jewish state is a "security measure". Almost no one thinks of it in these terms, neither Israeli Jews or American Jews (Einstein did, but he was in a minority). Israeli's (and American Jews) typcially describe Israel is existing for the protection of Israel identity, religion and culture, not the physical protection of individual Jews.
You say that most Jews support the inclusion of other people in their communities, and yet the Prime Minister of Israel said "If we don't stop their [African asylum seekers] entry, the problem that currently stands at 60,000 could grow to 600,000, and that threatens our existence as a Jewish and democratic state ... This phenomenon is very grave and threatens the social fabric of society, our national security and our national identity."
>Please don't bring Stormfront to HN.
I will bring my own beliefs to HN, feel free to deal with it however you like.
> Almost no one thinks of it in these terms, neither Israeli Jews or American Jews (Einstein did, but he was in a minority). Israeli's (and American Jews) typcially describe Israel is existing for the protection of Israel identity, religion and culture, not the physical protection of individual Jews.
I'm an American Jew who does. It's also not all that rare of a belief that having a country with a majority Jewish population is essential to the protection of the Jewish people. While people certainly talk about this argument less these days, it was one of the key justifications for the creation of Israel in the wake of the Holocaust (what you get as a small minority in every nation on Earth).
I'm familiar with holocaust as a reason for Israel's existence, I just don't accept it as the primary reason. There are simply to many occasions where American Jews and Israelis celebrate Jewish culture and identity for its own sake, and not merely as a reaction to being singled out by other Whites.
Even the narrative of the holocaust suggests that Jewish identity and culture is valued for its own sake. The concept of genocide implies that wiping an entire group of people is worse than simply killing the same number of randomly selected people. If this is true, then it follows that there was some inherent value in that group's identity, beyond their worth, and right to exist, as individuals.
> There are simply to many occasions where American Jews and Israelis celebrate Jewish culture and identity for its own sake, and not merely as a reaction to being singled out by other Whites.
What is wrong with that? Do the Jewish people somehow not deserve existence? Why should we not celebrate our culture and religion the same way Christians, Croats, and Italians do? (for example.)
Also, celebrating our culture is not mutually exclusive with celebrating diversity of cultures.
> The concept of genocide implies that wiping an entire group of people is worse than simply killing the same number of randomly selected people.
Do you dispute that? Generally racism is frowned upon.
Hating because you don't like their personality is acceptable. Hating them for their race isn't.
Killing someone is unacceptable. Killing someone for their race is even less acceptable.
That I have to explain this to you makes me think I might be dealing with anti-semitism.
>What is wrong with that? Do the Jewish people somehow not deserve existence? Why should we not celebrate our culture and religion the same way Christians, Croats, and Italians do? (for example.)
If Jewish people deserve existence (as a group, not individuals), then White people deserve existence as a group.
You say that White people are allowed to celebrate their culture and religion, and yet these are precisely the actions that are demonized as racism or at best ignorant provincialism, by the same liberals Jews I am describing.
You simply cannot have it both ways. My first post described how supporting Israel's existence as a Jewish nation was contradictory to liberal Jew's attitude towards White identity. You now concede that Jewish identity is in fact very similar to White identity. But now you are trying to change the argument, as if I was the one saying that Jewish identity was unacceptable. I'm not. I'm saying it is no more or less acceptable that White identity.
>Killing someone is unacceptable. Killing someone for their race is even less acceptable.
I disagree, but that isn't the point here. The argument against genocide I'm referring to is that it is more wrong because it wipes out a particular race or ethnicity, not because of the mindset of the perpetrator.
>So now you're getting very Stormfronty.
>That I have to explain this to you makes me think I might be dealing with anti-semitism.
> If Jewish people deserve existence (as a group, not individuals), then White people deserve existence as a group.
This makes no sense. Jewish people as a group have a very long shared cultural and religious history. However, the concept of "white people" is a fairly recent cultural and political construct and has changed dramatically over the years--for example, at one point in the United States Irish and Italians were not considered to be white. You can't compare them in the way you (and the Stormfront crowd) are attempting to.
No, they don't. Don't legitimize their nonsense.
Also, Israel is not meant to be solely Jewish. It's just majority Jewish, just like other nations are majority Christian/white. That's a security measure, not an expression that Jews are inherently superior to other races—most Jews I know (including Israelis) support the inclusion of other people in their communities.
Please don't bring Stormfront to HN.