Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Maybe this sounds out here - given the history of the US government I don't think so - I fear for Wyden's safety. He keeps sticking his neck out there over and over again, pushing back against the intelligence system. It's an exceptionally powerful and threatening system, with a massive budget and influence (for example, lucrative CIA and NSA contracts can get very powerful and intelligent people, such as Larry Ellison, to talk completely insane gibberish about how Amex has tons of info on people and we should be more concerned about voluntary transactions than the NSA spying on us by force).


Yeah, the man should not fly other than commercial coach for the forseeable future.


More reasonable than a physical attack is some sort of fabricated smear campaign. It need not even be untruthful - we've all got something embarrassing if you look deep enough, and the NSA can look pretty deep.


I think more likely is character assassination rather than physical assassination. A physical assassination would just be too obvious.

Then again, maybe he keeps sticking his neck out because he has the least to hide.


> Maybe this sounds out here

It does. Please name the last time the US government assassinated a federal-level elected official. (And "Kennedy" doesn't count as an answer).


Paul Wellstone, Mel Carnahan, and Jerry Litton come to mind, as possibilities. For the equal-opportunity crowd, there's Richard Obenshain and Ted Stevens on the right, as well as Barbara Olson (married to White House counsel, Ted Olson) who died in 9/11 on Flight 77 as it crashed into the Pentagon.


Seriously?


I neither believe that they were or weren't killed. I don't have strong feelings either way. Accidents do happen. And at the same time, plane crashes can be awfully convenient (read the opening of Confessions of an Economic Hit Man).

However if I were to look for a list of candidates, including the possibility that 9/11 was a red flag operation (again, I don't generally suspect that it was, but stranger things have been proposed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods), that would be a good list to start with.

In established cases (though not "killed by the government"), the most recent assassination of a sitting Federal official was John Roll, a district judge in Arizona (killed in the Gabrielle Giffords assassination attempt) in 2011.

The most recently assassinated national legislator (sitting member of Congress) was Allard K. Lowenstein, a liberal Democrat representing Nassau County, New York (Long Island).

Prior to that, Leo Ryan (Jonestown), Robert Kennedy (assassinated while running for the Democratic Presidential ticket), JFK, and Huey Long, in 1935.

By my count: 19 Democratic officeholders and 8 Republicans have been assassinated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_American_...


You're moving the goal posts from 'politicians assassinated by the US Government' to 'politicians and officials who have been assassinated.' No one disputes that assassinations and attempted assassinations have taken place. But, sort of throwing up your hands and saying, "Accidents do happen [but] plane crashes can be awfully convenient," doesn't leave me any room to debate this topic with you. You can't have it both ways.


I'm saying if you want to find the government assassinations, here is where you'd look. Again, I'm not saying that these were assassinations (other than the ones which are commonly considered as such). But they're deaths in office.

Actually, I was a bit surprised that there were as few assassinations as there have been (what with some 500+ high national political figures at any one time). The Democrat/Republican balance is also interesting.

"Accidents do happen [but] plane crashes can be awfully convenient," doesn't leave me any room to debate this topic with you.

Believe it or not, I can accept issues as unresolved, though with shadings of possibility or probability one way or the other. When I say "I'm not convinced one way or the other", I mean just that. I've also not really put much time into looking at any of these incidents.

I do leave the possibility open in the case of Wellstone and Carnahan. The circumstances of Litton's death (how often to airplane crankshafts break spontaneously?) are interesting. Ryan and Jonestown: pretty clearly a cult.

There's also the case that there can be actions involving some elements of a government in opposition to others. As Kenneth Arrow observed, firms aren't single points, they're structures with internal complexity. As are governments. Operation Northwoods and The Business Plot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot) are both indications that plots have been hatched in the US. It can happen here, and very nearly has.

The circumstances surrounding both the Wellstone and Carnahan deaths were extremely politically charged. In Wellstone's case, former vice president Walter Mondale stood in as a candidate 11 days prior to the election. In Carnahan's, his name remained on the ballot and his wife served. There's relatively little dispute over the official investigation of the Wellstone incident, and some history of concerns with the principle pilot. As you may recall, Carnahan's opponent was John Ashcroft who went on to serve at Attorney General in the 2nd Bush Administration. In both cases (as now), control of the Senate was in play.


> I fear for Wyden's safety.

Even if this was an issue - There is no point in living an oppressed life.

Maybe it's time we start making sacrifices now so the future will be better and we don't leave our kids in an even bigger mess.

Keep in mind, we've already shown that we're OK with messing up the planet for future generations: We haven't taken any serious measures against

- climate change,

- overpopulation (this is 1 "meta" problem which reinforces most others),

- wealth inequality (poverty is now "the new normal"),

- pollution,

- etc.


>We haven't taken any serious measures against

We have actually: People the world over are having far far fewer children. Almost all developed countries have < replacement rate population growth, and many developing countries are below that level as well

Turns out when given the option, women don't want 203948 kids.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: