> ...while the 40-year-old is thinking, "kid, if I wanted to take on that kind of risk and insanity, I'd have your job".
So what made that 40-year-old think he wanted to work for the startup in the first place? if the founder's position is too risky and insane for his taste, how is an employee position going to be any better?
I mean, everything he's saying is true, and the take-away seems to be that 40 year olds with families (or anyone else who requires stability) are not a good fit for early-stage startups. Didn't we already know that? One poster hilariously bemoaned being "put out to pasture," but the demand for more compensation (even if deserved) has a lot to do with it. You can't have a stable cushy job and be on the ground floor of a startup at the same time.
Edit: The disparity between founders and employees is definitely an issue, which could be fixed by a more even equity distribution, but I don't think that would solve all of OP's issues.
> if the founder's position is too risky and insane for his taste, how is an employee position going to be any better?
The founder has upside potential to compensate for the risk. If the employee position has much less upside potential (i.e. equity), but just as much risk, it had better be balanced by higher compensation than you could get in a "stable, cushy job."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the kinds of companies in question normally don't have the capital to offer that kind of compensation. That's why I added the edit to my comment: the employees should certainly get to share in the reward as compensation for their risk.
The whole point of this thread is that startups don't typically offer early employees enough equity to justify the combination of risk and often below-market salary.
Right. So my proposal is to offer more equity. Yours is a higher salary. I think we're mostly in agreement.
My view is that a startup is inherently risky and unstable. I think it makes more sense for everyone to share fully in that (risk and reward), than for some employees to simply collect a paycheck. But that's how some talented people work, so I suppose you have to be flexible.
Why just as much? It is often said that, but in reality it is not so. Employee risk is vastly higher.
Essentially an employee has 1) all the risk of a founder; 2) plus more uncertainty risk; 3) plus the risk of founders screwing up an employee stock options; 4) plus the risk of getting a bad reference from a founder who screw an employee up.
On "uncertainty risk". More uncertainty always means more risk. Founders have all the information and control over what is happening in the company, while employee only has indirect access to both. That means more uncertainty for an employee. And consequently more risk.
Also, consider employees and founders future career. Founder don't need good references from employees, and an employee does. That actually means, that an employee has take that into consideration as a risk. Should there be any falling out between an employee and a founder, than not only stocks options and position, but even future career of an employee can be impacted. That is a huge risk for an employee. And, it is not so for a founder.
A startup doesn't have to be an unstable get rich quick scam as you seem to imply. In other industries besides our's, people expect a new company (also known as a startup) to also be ... you know ... a company. Honestly, it's comments like these that I feel make tech startups look like caricatures and just silly.
But that's the culture we've created, isn't it? Is my comment inaccurate? The "tech startup" has become a different animal from a general "new company," largely due to greatly reduced overhead and initial costs. There are still "new companies" in tech, especially hardware.
I'm not sure why you call this new model a scam...it's fiercely competitive and certainly high risk, but what makes it a silly caricature? Do you feel the same about YC in general? Because they've definitely been at the forefront of fostering this "start lean and grow fast" mentality.
So what made that 40-year-old think he wanted to work for the startup in the first place? if the founder's position is too risky and insane for his taste, how is an employee position going to be any better?
I mean, everything he's saying is true, and the take-away seems to be that 40 year olds with families (or anyone else who requires stability) are not a good fit for early-stage startups. Didn't we already know that? One poster hilariously bemoaned being "put out to pasture," but the demand for more compensation (even if deserved) has a lot to do with it. You can't have a stable cushy job and be on the ground floor of a startup at the same time.
Edit: The disparity between founders and employees is definitely an issue, which could be fixed by a more even equity distribution, but I don't think that would solve all of OP's issues.