Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

> It's coming from Toyota because Toyota can't wrap its head around not making engines.

Of course they can. Toyota sells BEVs. As time goes on BEVs will become a greater percentage of their sales.

 help



The bZ4X? 10+ years after the Nissan Leaf?

And the bZ3, bZ5, bZ7, bZ3X, bZ Woodland, C-HR+, the Lexus RZ, and soon the Hilux EV:

https://electrek.co/2026/01/09/toyota-electric-pickup-images...


A list of cars that aren't available for purchase yet doesn't disprove the argument that Toyota is late to the game.

They are available for purchase.

Toyota is in the game of selling cars. Toyota has been the best selling automaker for the last six years straight.

Toyota had record sales last year:

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota...

It's possible that Toyota understands the car business better than you do.


All of the bz* models you listed are Chinese models, and while the Woodland and C-HR are listed on their US website, they aren't really available for purchase (though I did find one C-HR if I'm willing to drive 500 miles to buy it). Obviously the world auto market is greater than the US, but the US is the leading market for Toyota in terms of total units sold, so it's odd to me that if I drive to the Toyota dealership 10 minutes from my house, their game of selling cars only leaves me with one model to purchase if I'm committed to buying a BEV.

China is the biggest EV market, Europe is the second biggest, and North America is third.

For EVs the US will remain lower priority than China and Europe for a while yet. Toyota understands how to sell cars.

It's funny how this thread has gone from "Toyota can't wrap its head around not making engines" to "Toyota is not prioritizing small EV markets first".


You are correct that China is the number one market in terms of BEV sales, but the US is number two, selling more than 3-5 combined. That's an odd way to define a small EV market. Funny thing is, in terms of rankings, the US is actually a "small market" when it comes to gas-only cars.

Prior to moving to only BEVs, our family bought several Toyotas (and before that, only Hondas), and I was disappointed to find that I had no options (at the time, and in the 4 years since, between the 2 manufacturers, only 2 have come to market that I can purchase). Perhaps VW and Kia don't understand how to sell cars, but they understood how to sell them to me.


> You are correct that China is the number one market in terms of BEV sales, but the US is number two, selling more than 3-5 combined.

This is incorrect, unless you're viewing the US as a single market but the EU as multiple (which, I mean, ah, you do you, but that doesn't make any sense from an industry perspective). Last year about 1.3 million BEVs were sold in the US (a minor decline from 2024), 1.9 million BEVs were sold in the EU (up 33% YoY). In Europe more broadly defined, 2.5 million BEVs were sold (in practice, the industry largely treats EU+EFTA+UK as one market). In China, 8 million were sold, up about 25% YoY.

You can, ah, perhaps see why the US is not a top-priority market for the industry. In practice, the US _will_ get many of these Toyota models, or some variant thereof, but later. You mention VW, but they, too, treat the US as a second priority BEV market; their electric cars generally come out about a year late there if at all. Hyundai does release in the US at the same time as elsewhere (when they release at all; the Ioniq 3 will not be available in the US, for instance, because the US does not buy small cars in significant numbers).


Nation-based segmentation makes the most sense to me because as I understand it (coming from a US-centric perspective, so I may have misunderstandings) there may be additional friction (fees, regulations, etc) buying from another EU country as opposed to someone in the US buying a vehicle from a different state. In many cases, you don't even have to go to another state; dealerships regularly transfer inventory (with a shipping fee, but not anything at the government level)

From the point of view of the manufacturers, the Single Market is, ah, a single market; they only have to get type approval once, and then they can sell anywhere. The only real complicating factor is Ireland and Malta, which drive on the left side of the road (and some niche cars will never be released there as a consequence; for instance Tesla stopped selling Model S/X in a left hand drive configuration a while back, though they now seem to have stopped selling both in Europe entirely, in any case).

Post-Brexit, the UK has its own type certification (and of course it also has the left hand drive problem), and, again, some niche car models may be available in the EU but not the UK. But in practice, for mainstream stuff, the manufacturers tend to treat it as just part of the European market.


The entire point of the European Union is to eliminate all of that friction. Most of the rules and regulations have been pushed to the EU level, just like the USA pushed most of its rules and regulations to the federal level. A car only needs a single type approval granted by a single member state, and it can be sold across the entire EU.

There are of course still some tax differences and importing from another member state might be slightly trickier for a consumer than buying it from a dealership in their own country, but I don't see how that is any different from dealing with different kinds of sales tax in the various US states, or having to transfer your car title to another state.

The European single market operates as, well, a single market.



Toyota sells bad EVs and was the last OEM to offer one. It’s the most anti-EV OEM by far and engages/engaged in the most EV FUD.

The bZ4X was particularly bad. Toyota adopted a combo of NIH syndrome and DNGAF. They didn’t anticipate cold weather. The batteries lost like 30% of their capacity in the cold and the resale value of it tanked.

> The batteries lost like 30% of their capacity in the cold

Here in Norway Toyota was invited to include the bZ4X in this years winter range test[1], but they declined. Suzuki entered with their eVitara model, which is a "technological twin" of the Toyota Urban Cruiser.

The Urban Cruiser really disappointed in a regular test performed in cold weather[2]. So perhaps unsurprisingly, the Suzuki eVitara was by far the worst in the winter range test, with the least range overall and more than 40% reduction compared to its WLTP range, among the worst in the test.

[1]: https://www.tek.no/nyheter/nyhet/i/d4mMkA/verdens-stoerste-r...

[2]: https://www.tek.no/test/i/OkQAwE/toyota-urban-cruiser


They’re also just phenomenally ugly cars.

It shares the same ugly design language as much of Toyota’s lineup.

> Toyota sells bad EVs

The 2026 bZ Woodland [1] looks pretty nice in my opinion.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/02/looks-a-lot-like-an-ele...


I have only purchased Toyota vehicles (currently in the market for an EV) and it baffles me that Dodge created a Charger in EV form and Toyota hasn’t made even an EV Corolla or Camry.

> it baffles me that Dodge created a Charger in EV form and Toyota hasn’t made even an EV Corolla or Camry

Dodge's Charger EV has been a sales flop [1] and pretty much universally panned by critics as something that nobody asked for.

The Camry and Corolla were the best-selling sedan and compact sedan of 2025 [2]. I think this shows that Toyota is listening to what Corolla and Camry drivers want - something inexpensive and reliable to get them to and from work every day without issue.

Some day Toyota will make an EV sedan. I think their 2026 bZ Woodland [3] shows that they are starting to figure out how make compelling EVs. And Toyota's EV strategy seems pretty reasonable to me overall - their delays to develop a decent EV don't seem to put them under threat from any legacy automakers. They are being threatened by Chinese EV makers, but so is Tesla - so even a huge head start likely wouldn't have benefited Toyota much either in that regard.

[1] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a69927938/dodge-charger-da...

[2] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g64457986/bestselling-cars...

[3] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/02/looks-a-lot-like-an-ele...


An electric Corolla or Camry is my ultimate. I hate driving.

I want an appliance that just works. The Corolla and Camry were this for petrol.

I love my Leaf but it isn’t a Carolla.

What’s with the turning circle on the Leaf?


That's essentially the bZ3. But a Corolla branded BEV will eventually happen:

https://electrek.co/2025/10/13/toyotas-best-selling-car-elec...


And yet they had one of the first hybrids (although not a plug-in hybrid) in the Prius.

Honda also was early in hybrids, but they like Toyota are also late on EVs.

The difference is probably philosophical. A (non-phev) hybrid is primarily an ICE car in every way. Building hybrids is building ICE cars with a little extra. Building EVs is different.

Honda and Toyota invested a lot in hybrid tech, they probably want to milk that investment more and the hydrogen distraction kept them from also investing in BEV tech. China was basically starting a car industry from scratch so didn’t have those sunk costs to worry about.



Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: