> But in matters of foreign policy, the media is entirely controlled by the state
Frankly, this is an insane opinion to hold. Go check what Le Monde and Le Figaro have to say on Israel, and then shut up.
> If you want to know what actually happened: the US has been using bribes and threats across eastern europe to turn those states into allies, placing armies and missles in them, for decades
You're missing one very, extremely crucial component (which only proves you're lapping up the Russian version of events) - the local population. Go to Poland and the Baltics, and ask them what they think of Russia. Those people (directly for those older than 40, indirectly for those under) suffered under brutal Russian rule. They want American (or frankly, anyone anti-Russian)'s protection from the evil imperialism of Russia.
And Russia's invasion of Ukraine is proving them right. If they didn't have protection (NATO), they would be at the whims of Russia deciding it doesn't like their government or laws or whatever and invading to massacre them. Just ask Georgia and Ukraine.
> Russia has been protesting this for decades too,
Honestly, who asked them?
> They were very afraid they would lose their naval base in crimea (which was always, officially, their land)
I'm sorry? Are you talking about the lease? That doesn't make Crimea, nor Sevastopol, nor the naval port of Sevastopol, "officially, their land". Also, Novorossiysk existing and being expanded proves it was never about Sevastopol. The fact that the Russian Black Sea fleet doesn't exist anymore thanks to Ukrainian attacks makes this even more ridiculous.
> When that happened they took crimea to ensure the US wouldnt gain control of that base
The US has Varna, Constantsa, whatever they want in Turkey. Why would they need Sevastopol and is there any shred of proof they ever wanted it? Also, the Montreux Convention makes a Black Sea base for a non-Black Sea country nearly useless, so your claim makes even less sense.
> all the while arms, soliders etc. were flowing in from western states into the country (against agreements france/germany made, which they violated to do this)
What agreements? And why the hell are you ignoring the russian "separatists" that invaded East Ukraine, up to and shooting down MH17 our of sheer incompetence?
> The original russian plans were just to quickly surround kiev and effect a reigeme change quickly, not to enter a war -- the war was escalated to its current scale in large part by US/UK pressuring ukraine not to regotiate and promising massive arms/aid backing.
What the fuck. I honestly cannot believe you're arguing in good faith, especially after all the tribalism bullshit.
So the war escalated because Ukraine refused to fall to a quick regime change, not because Russia invaded? Are you sure that's in any way logical or factual?
And why the hell do you expect Ukraine to want to surrender its territory and people to be tortured and genocided by Russia?
> About two years ago UA fell into a stalemate/loss posisition, and now it may be to late to negotiate terms with putin not to take a much larger area.
Yes, the country fighting to survive is in a stalemate/loss, not the one that tried and failed, in your words, a quick regime change.
> In part, putin is interested in taking an area of land that puts moscow outside of missle range from ukraine, which is up to about half-way.
What are you talking about?! What missiles, there are ICBMs, and there are shorter to medium range missiles in Poland and the Baltic. Moscow isn't any safer now. In fact it's worse, because Russia's invasion convinced two traditionally neutral countries in Finland and Sweden to join NATO. Not to mention Russia losing its best troops.
As I said, there are facts. Russia invaded Ukraine, and is committing a genocide. Like they invaded Georgia before. Whatever excuses of what sovereign countries did Putin can throw at the wall don't matter in the slightest. And there is delusional intentional muddying of the waters by people like you trying to twist narratives and make Russia's invasion somehow the fault of Ukraine/"the West", and not... Fucking Russia that invaded and is committing a genocide.
Frankly, this is an insane opinion to hold. Go check what Le Monde and Le Figaro have to say on Israel, and then shut up.
> If you want to know what actually happened: the US has been using bribes and threats across eastern europe to turn those states into allies, placing armies and missles in them, for decades
You're missing one very, extremely crucial component (which only proves you're lapping up the Russian version of events) - the local population. Go to Poland and the Baltics, and ask them what they think of Russia. Those people (directly for those older than 40, indirectly for those under) suffered under brutal Russian rule. They want American (or frankly, anyone anti-Russian)'s protection from the evil imperialism of Russia.
And Russia's invasion of Ukraine is proving them right. If they didn't have protection (NATO), they would be at the whims of Russia deciding it doesn't like their government or laws or whatever and invading to massacre them. Just ask Georgia and Ukraine.
> Russia has been protesting this for decades too,
Honestly, who asked them?
> They were very afraid they would lose their naval base in crimea (which was always, officially, their land)
I'm sorry? Are you talking about the lease? That doesn't make Crimea, nor Sevastopol, nor the naval port of Sevastopol, "officially, their land". Also, Novorossiysk existing and being expanded proves it was never about Sevastopol. The fact that the Russian Black Sea fleet doesn't exist anymore thanks to Ukrainian attacks makes this even more ridiculous.
> When that happened they took crimea to ensure the US wouldnt gain control of that base
The US has Varna, Constantsa, whatever they want in Turkey. Why would they need Sevastopol and is there any shred of proof they ever wanted it? Also, the Montreux Convention makes a Black Sea base for a non-Black Sea country nearly useless, so your claim makes even less sense.
> all the while arms, soliders etc. were flowing in from western states into the country (against agreements france/germany made, which they violated to do this)
What agreements? And why the hell are you ignoring the russian "separatists" that invaded East Ukraine, up to and shooting down MH17 our of sheer incompetence?
> The original russian plans were just to quickly surround kiev and effect a reigeme change quickly, not to enter a war -- the war was escalated to its current scale in large part by US/UK pressuring ukraine not to regotiate and promising massive arms/aid backing.
What the fuck. I honestly cannot believe you're arguing in good faith, especially after all the tribalism bullshit.
So the war escalated because Ukraine refused to fall to a quick regime change, not because Russia invaded? Are you sure that's in any way logical or factual?
And why the hell do you expect Ukraine to want to surrender its territory and people to be tortured and genocided by Russia?
> About two years ago UA fell into a stalemate/loss posisition, and now it may be to late to negotiate terms with putin not to take a much larger area.
Yes, the country fighting to survive is in a stalemate/loss, not the one that tried and failed, in your words, a quick regime change.
> In part, putin is interested in taking an area of land that puts moscow outside of missle range from ukraine, which is up to about half-way.
What are you talking about?! What missiles, there are ICBMs, and there are shorter to medium range missiles in Poland and the Baltic. Moscow isn't any safer now. In fact it's worse, because Russia's invasion convinced two traditionally neutral countries in Finland and Sweden to join NATO. Not to mention Russia losing its best troops.
As I said, there are facts. Russia invaded Ukraine, and is committing a genocide. Like they invaded Georgia before. Whatever excuses of what sovereign countries did Putin can throw at the wall don't matter in the slightest. And there is delusional intentional muddying of the waters by people like you trying to twist narratives and make Russia's invasion somehow the fault of Ukraine/"the West", and not... Fucking Russia that invaded and is committing a genocide.