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Surveillance and the suppression of civil society in Serbia (amnesty.org)
71 points by walterbell on Jan 3, 2025 | hide | past | favorite | 44 comments


In Australia:

  In recent discussions at Senate estimates, it was revealed that Services Australia, the administrator of Centrelink, has been sharing smartphone-hacking technology, specifically Cellebrite’s Universal Forensic Extraction Device, with the Department of Education and other undisclosed agencies.

  This move aims to assist in the investigation of suspected fraud committed against various government schemes and subsidies.

  While Services Australia insists the technology is only used for serious non-compliance investigations, not general customer compliance issues, concerns have been raised about privacy, data retention, and adherence to international agreements on spyware proliferation.
~ https://elm.net.au/services-australias-use-of-cellebrites-fo...

From 2022:

    How does Cellebrite work?

  It takes just a few seconds for police to scan a mobile phone with technology such as Cellebrite. They usually download the entire contents of the phone and gain an enormous level of intelligence.

  Police can scan a device during a stop and search on reasonable grounds, patrolling in a vehicle, or while questioning a suspect – often without the knowledge of the person.

  Usually, they are seeking confirmation of drug dealing, child sexual abuse, murder or gang activity involving assault or robbery.
~ https://stacklaw.com.au/news/criminal-law/concerns-over-poli...


ATPs are not theoretical. They are an everyday threat for all users. Encryotion, secure operating systems, open source software ... the tools used to keep our PCs safe need to be deployed on all of our phones too.


Many writers here see this as unfairly singling out Serbia.

I find it helpful to see this as a case study. Instead of seeing as only a portrait of one country ("and my country is different"), consider it as an illustration ("my country could feel like that, too").

Note that the report goes well beyond the title.

1. Norway was the source of the Cellebrite technology?!

> Additionally, the Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which donated the Cellebrite UFED technology, and the United Nations Office for Project Services (UNOPS), which managed procurement for the Norwegian government’s grant to Serbia’s Ministry of Interior, failed to conduct an adequate due diligence process to assess and mitigate for the potential risks of this technology to human rights and to provide safeguards against its abuse

2. The "chilling effect" (page 10) notes apply to anyone in a position resisting the government, in any country.

3. The details section is more specific about everything, and none of the facts are good.

I think the details here go beyond "surveillance is happening everywhere", so I think it's wrong to dismiss this as some kind of fluff or hit piece. Even if other places are also bad, see the truth in this as well.


Be aware that Amnesty International has tendency to publish defamatory and incorrect opinion pieces. They are even happy to publish complete lies when it satisfies their agenda - to be a middleman for the international aid.


This is HN. I don't have a problem with the throwaway account, but provide sources if you expect us to take you seriously.


https://x.com/amnestyfrance/status/1864689106032214016

>You have become a shop for far-left ideologues who choose their causes based on party doctrine.

Take not of the pro-Israel agenda that grafted itself on this issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA4e0NqyYMw

>You'll find us in the shadows >And all the world's a stage


I have the feeling this will be more and more the norm rather than the exception.


Not much difference than the way all modern society works with technology today. Big tech firms often scan our stuff without our knowledge ([1] for example) and manipulate people with advanced algorithms to simply hand stuff over. The only difference is that we have the illusion that we are making a choice.

But now, ask yourself: if you need to work a regular job and do regular stuff (i.e. you're not super rich), how easy is it to go through life without a smartphone? Banks often require one for two-factor authentication. Many businesses communicate through Whatsapp around the world. My condominium's condo fees are only viewable through an app. Etc. If a person HATES smartphones, and NEVER wants to use one, it would be difficult, no question. So, that person is FORCED to use one.

Some people like them, but others hate them and have to use them anyway. Whether you like it or not, we are forced to carry these surveillance devices around because many components of modern infrastructure are starting to require smartphoines.

The only difference between Serbia and here is that Serbian police do it, whereas in the West, all of society collaborates in a downward spiral to do it, which is also heralded and encouraged by law enforcement here too.

References

1. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/01/apple-agrees-to-...


What jobs don't give out a work phone these days?


In the USA, a very small percentage of people get a second phone from their employer. To answer your question: The vast, vast majority of jobs.


Mine.


While the situation with tracking in the West is awful, there's a huge difference between having a choice, however impractical, and being spied on in secret.


In Sweden, it's illegal to buy prepaid mobile phones with cash since august 1, 2022.


In contrast, in Serbia you can buy simcards without ID at any kiosk


There is no choice. It is literally illegal for me to buy a decent laptop with cash in Portugal for example.


Why is that? Can you provide a source? (Not distrusting you, but it would be great to have a source because I'm a writer and interested in writing about these things.)



It's the law. You can't pay in cash for anything above three thousand euros. If you're a company the limit is even lower at 1000 Euros. Interesting though that a foreigner, such as a tourist, can pay up to 10 thousand euros in cash as long it's not a business transaction.


This is a lie.

Not much else to say about it, it just is not true.

I know people living in Portugal, first hand, with pretty beefy and expensive laptops.


He means buying it in cash. Anti money laundering / tax evasion laws in some places prohibit using cash above a certain limit


It is still a lie.

I think the limit in Portugal for cash transactions is around €3k. You can buy a pretty great laptop with that


My entire point was that we don't really have a choice -- for example, most people do not have a choice to own a phone any more. It's a practically mandatory sort of technology. So, we don't really have a choice here either, only the illusion of one.


It's also not just your phone. People seem to have forgotten about things like PRISM [1] because it's no longer in the news, but it's still very much around and likely only more extensive. The surveillance state extends far beyond just phones.

Yet these articles, from well known organisations, extensively investigating (even featuring 0 day revelations) the decline of civil society in lieu of ever more pervasive surveillance and manipulation of opinion, only seem to ever focus on geopolitical adversaries of the US.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM


Yep, I agree with that. It's much worse than just phones.


Unless you're living in a cabin in rural Alaska or something, you are being spied on in secret (do we still use that word, post-Snowden?) in the West.

"No smart phone" merely removes some of the fine detail from the GB's of data that the 3-letters have about you.


I visited Belgrade and Nis last year, it is a safe and peaceful country compared to Paris or Marseille. A quiet place to live with children and family.


Unless you don't mind round the clock air pollution, violation of human rights, hybrid political regimen (not a democracy) and coruptation in every public instutiton, then yeah it can be pretty okay place for a family


https://aqicn.org/map/belgrade/ It's not great air quality, but round the clock air pollution is a great exaggeration.


I visited Syria in 2008. It was, by all appearances, a safe and peaceful country. A quiet place to live with children and family.


Before USA intervention


Grass is greener. If you lived in a city all your life you know all the seedy areas and bad stuff happened to you in that city. If you go travel to another city and see the touristy places it will feel splendid and almost for sure nothing bad will happen to you because of statistics.

I lived in Belgrade and Nis for half a year. Did not feel too safe if you go far from center or too close to main bus station. I think I liked Novi Sad more than other two.

Regarding peace, I gathered that many people there support Putin's war so there's that. But people are different. Serbs specifically have an axe to grind because of the bombings (of course their government also committed a genocide but whatabout this, whatabout that).


Almost everywhere in the former Yugoslavia is more safe than in the West. But it is not only safe, you will very easily make friends as people are much more open to forming friendships. Belgrade is one of my favourite cities. Never been to Nis


> Almost everywhere in the former Yugoslavia is more safe than in the West.

According to what metric?

> But it is not only safe, you will very easily make friends as people are much more open to forming friendships.

Are you generalizing "The west" here a bit?


Confirm, people are very open and kind


Not a fan of Amnesty after they sided with Russia early in the Ukraine war, that move even made the head of Amnesty in Ukraine to resign in protest.


It was not a good look. To their credit, they admit their mistakes [1], if in somewhat bureaucratic stuffy language.

[1]: https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/org60/6795/2023/en/


agree.


Although it is a general concern that governments are constantly encroaching on our private conversations I cannot help but wonder why Serbia is singled out. There are much more authoritarian examples of survailence technology and draconian laws in the West, examples being Australia UK Spain, etc


Oh wow, Serbia is le bad again?


Yeah, yeah, "whataboutism," but did Amnesty International write anything about the hundreds of people in the UK who were arrested and charged for protesting in 2024?

Serbia might keep tabs on some political activists -- like every other country -- but to the best of my knowledge nobody has been charged as a result of this snooping -- and the AI report itself corroborates this:

> "33 people were arrested or detained for informational interviews during the August protest, subjected to long questioning, search of their apartments, and seizure and search of their telephones and computers. Not one of them has been formally charged at the time of this report’s publication"

This report is a thin, politically-motivated hit piece. Risible, really.

Sadly, I expect we're going to see a lot more of this sort of thing directed against Serbia, Hungary, and Slovakia in the near future. (And to a lesser extent perhaps also Croatia and Slovenia.) "Get with the program, or else" is the message here.


> "Get with the program, or else" is the message here.

You seem to imply this is either unexpected or unfortunate? What is it you refer to as "the program"?

There is a big difference between on the one hand Hungrary and Slovakia, and Serbia on the other.

Hungary and Slovakia are EU members. The EU isn't some sort of trade union, it's a political union of liberal democracies. Independent judiciaries, free press and so on are "the program". Serbia can go with "the program" when and if they want (they have been candidates for a long time). Of course they aren't to be free of criticism if they lean towards authoritarianism, but unlike EU countries there isn't much more to do about it than complain about it. And of course it's the job of liberal democracies, and all media and organizations in liberal democracies to do just that: complain. Yet you seem surprised.


Is there a reliable source about UK charges? But please don't say "it is censored everywhere", I hear it too often.

in Russia, Serbia's good friend, let's just say there are people charged for things like this (or for something else convenient) and sit in jail for years. This is not very publicized. But yeah I talked to some of those people who now sit in jail. And also I talked to plenty Europeans who say "everything is bad and censorship, Putin will free us all" (while in a russia it is illegal to tell somebody how to use VPN). It would be funny if it was not sad.


This is out of date, but it has >1000 arrested and >500 charged.

> https://archive.ph/56fiN

IIRC, the current number is >1200 and >650.

A lot of those charges are against people who were just memeing on social media, e.g.:

> https://www.westmidlands.police.uk/news/west-midlands/news/n...

> https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr548zdmz3jo

> https://www.cheshire.police.uk/news/cheshire/news/articles/2...

Those sentences are not light! And, "will they change anything," the BBC asks? But somehow Serbia is the digital prison. It's equal parts laughable and terrifying.


Thanks!




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