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I would be interested in the people who did structural/functional diagramming and views to the concrete/solidity of "that's not proper english" or "that isn't how it works" because the other side of the coin is that english (and obviously other languages: Spanish and gender..) change over time, and are fluid against the needs of their speakers.

I guess I'm arguing that if you did training in the formalism of a parse-tree, I wonder if it tends to re-inforce a view in "proper" use of a language rather than it's emergent behaviour and shifts of meaning.



There are subtle parts of how English works that confuse a lot of people, that diagramming might help with. The most obvious to me was the Harry Potter scene where, in the movie, Professor Snape says "and even put a stopper in death" [0]. The book version was just "even stopper death".

These mean opposite things. One uses "stopper" as a noun, saying to prevent death. The other is using it as a verb, saying to bottle up death - create a potion to cause death.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcnWqz8kafo


I don't know if there's an idiom getting in the way, but "put a stopper in" also sounds like bottling to me.


I don't think this applies, particularly. Diagramming wasn't so much "this is how a sentence should be set up" as "this is the function of this word in this sentence."


in the case of the fruit flies and the banana...


There would be two possible diagrams for that sentence, depending on how you understand it.


How about 'The soup that eats like a meal' or a 'pick-pocket'?


You're trying to condemn prescriptivism? What's your point -- some things can't be diagrammed? Who said they could be?

The first one is deliberately "wrong" for advertising effect, like

"Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should." when the correct English is

"Winston tastes good, as a cigarette should."

The ad copywriters liked how it sounded.


> You're trying to condemn prescriptivism?

No, that's a separate discussion. You can use the diagrams for both description and prescription.

> What's your point -- some things can't be diagrammed?

Well, at most that some things can't be diagrammed naively, and perhaps need a more complicated diagram language.

> The first one is deliberately "wrong" for advertising effect, [...]

No, it's perfectly fine. It's called 'middle voice' and is a normal, if relatively rare, feature of English. Your Winston-ad example also seems like your correction makes it less grammatical.


You can diagram AAVE just as easily as standard american english; it just uses a slightly different ruleset.


While I'm not a prescriptivist, I think diagramming (and the rest of the strict English grammar education I was given in the 70's and 80's) helped me to understand why grammar rules exist and how they bring clarity to communication. I think that also helped me when learning to write code.




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