I'm Canadian and have lived here (Spain) for 10 years.

I think it is partly a generational thing. If you find a mid-30's developer with kids, my experience is they will take what they can get. The trouble is, as you said, many have left (I know a few now in Germany) and others have simply created their own little space/niche of work.

The younger gen seems exactly as you say: back to home, parents footing the cost (I know one guy whose parent's are paying the loan on his BMW!).

At some point the pain is going to become too much and the "ni-ni"s, as they call them, are going to have to do something. Their country has already been sold, what next?

It might be true about the mid-30s for developers, but as anecdote: I read in a local newspaper about a small taxi company almost going bankrupt and we needed a taxi for quite a bit of a ride. So I called them, asked if they had time for a half day ride; they guy sounded happy and said they had. Then I told him where we live. No that was too far away (it isn't; it's a little more than half an hour drive from him); I told him we would pay for it. But it was a definite no; too far he wouldn't do it.

I see that mentality everywhere; builders (who are all out of a job now), pool cleaners, car repair etc. If something is slightly out of the comfort zone it's usually a no. How bad does it need to become before people see it doesn't work that way (anymore; obviously before 2008, if you were lucky and not too greedy, money was rather 'free' for a lot of people; for instance the local bar owner didn't have to work at all; his bar was packed every day before 2008 so he hired people, put the profit into building; unfortunately he got out too late and there you go; hard working which he 'doesn't do'. Rather live in poverty.).

The majority of the people here don't get it yet; how much pain will have to pass to sort this out. Its been a windfall for the last 10 (to 20) years, and then it is just too easy to blame the government.

I wish some form of serious, respected Spanish person, who isn't in politics, would stand up and stir the people into action as what happened in Iceland. Its sad to see a country rotting out from its core, the anger yet the complacency, the loud voices but muted actions...

The traditional way of a leader taking command and saying 'we can fix the problem sticking together, working together, with a common goal, etc' is almost impossible in Spain because we're a broken nation.

We have a huge problem with nationalism (specially in Catalonia, Basque Country, and some testing in Galicia) and in the autonomous communities (regions) without that kind of problem --like Andalusia or Valencia-- the political caste is a real tribal mafia.

Of course, in the nationalist zones the political caste is a mafia as well. 'The Caste' is the only common denominator in Spain.

Adding more emotion to the Spanish puzzle, Catalonia is trying to annex Andorra, a piece of Southern France, Valencia, and the Balearic Islands.

Basque Country is trying to annex Navarre, and another piece of Southern France.

Worth mentioning the very different Tax system in every region (in some places with huge privileges).

my experience in the Netherlands is "odd": people work, no question about that but most of the ones I know work 4-day weeks (good for work-life balance) and there are interesting benefits for people who don't work.

I'm sure it's not exact but I met people who had a high paying job, decided to leave/were fired and immediately got unemployment benefits from the government while they were looking for a new job.

Which is cool but mmmm maybe premature? If you had a high paying job for 3 years why should the government immediately step in giving you something like €500/month while you are looking for a new one? kinda removes the pressure to find a new one from day 1, doesn't it?

> If you had a high paying job for 3 years why should the government immediately step in giving you something like €500/month while you are looking for a new one? kinda removes the pressure to find a new one from day 1, doesn't it?

"The government" here is the tax payers, including the person in question, who has decided to pay into an insurance system exactly to avoid that pressure and give people a chance to look for a job without panicking over how they'll be able to pay the mortgage next month.

I'm Norwegian - the Norwegian system is similar - and was shocked when I moved to the UK, where unemployment benefits are a joke (still better than most US states) and notice periods are ridiculously short by my standard (in the UK 1 months notice is pretty standard; in Norway it's 3 months). In Norway you also get most of your salary for the first 12 months or so, I believe (it's been 12 years since I moved out, so not kept up to date how it's changed) so for most people it's way above €500/month).

If you look at unemployment in these countries when the economy is good, it's still usually low - the people who don't want to work will eventually be moved over to the regular benefits system which is far stricter and with lower amounts, and the people who do want to work rarely see unemployment benefits as some kind of paid holiday, but want to get back in work ASAP. Especially since a gap in employment will be something prospective employers will see as a worrying sign, so people are acutely aware that the longer they wait the harder it will be to get a new job at the same level.

And when times are not good is exactly when these benefits are important: We pay or dues to have a safety net in particular for those situations when it's not our fault we can't get a new job right away.

I wasn't criticising it but as usual it depends where you come from: I'm Italian, have been living in UK for 7 years and run a bunch of companies in both countries. As such I've never even considered job benefits, the way I see it is: I put enough money aside when things are good in order to be prepared for when things might not be that good.

I'm sure there are situations where really "it's not your fault" but most of the time I talk to people in dire situations they completely failed to do anything when things were going great for them. I have little sympathy for them, especially when they end up blaming everything but themselves.

Most "normal" people don't make enough money to set aside additional cash on top of the national insurance they already pay in part to cover unemployment benefits.

This is not "free money" - it is insurance payments that people in most cases have paid premiums for.

Why should people need to set aside additional money to avoid claiming benefits they are paying towards their entire working life?

> Most "normal" people don't make enough money to set aside additional cash on top of the national insurance they already pay in part to cover unemployment benefits.

please note I always referred to "people who had great periods" work and money wise

> Why should people need to set aside additional money to avoid claiming benefits they are paying towards their entire working life?

because if you are doing great how fair is it for you to be careless only because "if I need it the state will support me?" Looks to me like it quickly becomes your fault and you only subtract funds that should better be used for the people who really need the support (the people you mentioned at the beginning of your reply)

>kinda removes the pressure to find a new one from day 1, doesn't it?

Probably better both for society and business if people take a month or two to find a job that's a good fit rather than having to jump on the first one that comes.

Yeah you are right, however as I have seen, most people I have ever talked to in NL do not like getting benefits. If they are able to work, they do feel it their responsibility to do so. Of course there are plenty of exceptions, but for people say they are on benefits is something they are ashamed off. Which is a larger stimulation than money for most.

fair enough. As I wrote there is no question about the fact they work (I might not be crazy about the rhythm but that's a different thing and changes from company to company).

I'm very surprised about your experience. Unemployment hasn't hit that hard the IT sector,and finding good people ain't easy, but people willing to work on IT? There are plenty and doing very long hours...

I would guess it depends on the market you are after. I know Java devs working long hard hours and people who want to hire them that cannot find anyone. But I'm guessing those folks aren't the young crowd.