And I think Tesla is destined to expand their lead.
Tesla is the only car company that pushes hard to be a software company. Musk correctly said that the future of Tesla mostly relies on how fast it achieves full self-driving without human intervention.
Buying any other car feels archaic. As a Tesla is the only car that gets better every few months via over the air updates.
That was not my experience in owning one. Ours regularly had issues. The seat belt broke. It always smelled bad due to some ventilation design issue they could never fix. The rear taillight went out multiple times. The spoiler fell off in a car wash.
Can you imagine having a hardware feature disabled during an unrelated service appointment?
> Tesla is going on the offensive for select vehicles that still have radar units installed and unplugging the sensors from customer cars during routine service appointments.
When phones started to have built-in cameras, I once talked to a guy in a camera store and predicted that phone cameras will become more popular than regular cameras.
He looked at me as if I was insane. And with some anger, he told me that if I consider those little pieces of junk with tiny sensors and lenses to become serious competition to real cameras, he just can't take me serious.
It's always the same story with software eating the world. At first, it is hard to believe that the software will play a larger and larger role and ultimately become more important than the hardware.
While software certainly has improved phone photography, the sensors have gotten much much larger, and the lenses even more so (phone cameras are thicker and heavier now than they ever were in the 2000s) which is where much of the improvement comes from. I wouldn’t really point to that as an example of software eating the world.
I'm not very experienced in photography, but I would be very surprised if phones have caught up with cameras in terms of sensor size and lens size.
In regard to lenses, I can see that the phone lenses are still much smaller than those of standalone cameras.
And since cameras are less size constrained, why wouldn't they put bigger sensors into them?
And it's not only about lenses and sensors. All of the buttons and wheels are now pixels. And you can edit your photos right on a phone. And put them on social media. No teenager would ever swap their phone for a device without software to put the photos directly on Instagram.
Well, phone cameras still have tiny sensors and lenses. But the software makes up for it to an extent that they are vastly more popular than old school cameras now.
When mobility is a service you use via an app on your phone, it will be 100x more convenient than having to maintain a car yourself. Tap, and the robotaxi arrives in 5 minutes. Leave the car without having to care where to park. You won't be around when the car is in the car wash. It will go there by itself. And if something falls off, Tesla will deal with it, not you.
This is a ridiculous take, totally disconnected from the reality of how most middle-class Americans live. Maintaining my cars is far more convenient than waiting for a mobility service to arrive. Parking isn't a problem worth worrying about in most of the country; people just park right at their destinations. And I don't want my car to drive away when I get out; I want easy access to all the stuff that I keep in it.
I own both a Lexus and model 3. The Lexus still has a smoother ride. On the tesla , the wind noise is something I can’t get over despite owning for 2 years.
Being able to cut out the dealer allows you to under cut your competitors by 2-5K. It’s extremely hard to compete with that. Other manufacturers need to take notice and follow suit.
> I have absolutely no trust in anything Musk touches.
The other side of the great-man fallacy is the fallacy of attributing all of the problems with their works to them.
If you look at 1) the near religious following of Tesla enthusiasts for the company's brand, 2) the inherent superiority of electric vehicles over ICE vehicles for the vast majority of everyday use cases, and 3) until very recently no real alternatives, it's not surprising that Tesla was able/willing to cut corners on aspects of quality.
I also would never buy a vehicle from them either. I specifically waited until a good EV alternative to them was available in my price range. The faux-dystopian-bro turn they've taken with the Cybertruck is a cynical play on people's current insecurities, and Musk's recent revealing of his inner thought processes lines up pretty well with my long held impressions of him. I also think it's pretty unwise to have them be the sole domestic provider of manned space-launch.
Despite all that, given their current position most of his companies are acting rationally in their choices. It's up to his competitors or government to put pressure to change the situation. Arguably the government has stepped up in the EV space by providing a lot of incentives.
The situation at Twitter on the other hand does seem to be the most direct reflection of Musk's personality and state of mind. There's very little rational about what he's doing with it (much like his original purchase of it for an inflated price).
I don't think it's a matter of disagreement. Just a combination of a) most people don't follow Musk's shenanigans that closely, and/or b) most people are not that principled about what they buy, and just want a car they think is good.
I don't have a Tesla, largely because I don't trust them due to all of the hype. Hype which is largely driven directly by Musk. That said, they are good cars for a lot of people and the sales numbers reflect that.
Are you saying that because you don't think Musk is trustworthy, others shouldn't be buying these cars?
I agree but at least Tesla is making us all a favor by pushing innovation and lower prices to the rest of carmakers. If it was for the old players we would still be with hybrids like Prius or electrics with short range and highly decaying battery like the Nissan Leaf.
Did you stomp your feet as you typed out your tantrum?
Read some Blind posts about <insert random tech company name here>.
Have you spent any time in a Lucid or Lightning? Both have had their share of issues with the infotainment and info centers restarting or freezing. And the Hyundais. And the Escalade. There’s a reason vehicle controls systems are not affected by the info display systems.
As someone that does mostly city driving and is the perfect use case for an EV, I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk. The man has done significant damage to the brand.
That and I really hate the lack of tactile buttons in those cars, and their love for a clearly unsafe "full self driving" solution
> To the point where I now feel a bit attacked by sea of buttons when I get into a modern non-Tesla.
Going to need to read make/model/trim example before I believe that.
E.g., Mazda3 has very elegant non-cluttered knob UX. Also, the knobs available on last few years of Prius Prime LE are super obvious and bog standard for controlling heat/cool/etc. (E.g., red for heat and blue for cool IIRC.)
Even the newest Civics I've seen with the big slow touchscreens have just three obvious knobs that do obvious things, above which there is a solitary button that appears to be the bog standard triangular hazard lights button.
Audi eTron something something SUV. Just so busy and confusing, wall of buttons. But also touchpad or dial or something to use the laggy and entertainment. Entering addresses complete pain.
Similar story with the Lexus NX. Added bonus of things not actually working.
I only test drove one, but I felt very overwhelmed in the 30 minutes I had it - and I was coming from a car with strong adaptive cruise/lane centering.
* wipers were not at all obvious to me. I don’t remember speed control and wash being physical.
* many of the actions are on the same physical button and context specific. While it would be fine after I get use to the car, very overwhelming
- wipers - button at the end of left side stalk, half press for single wipe, full press for wash. Some seconds after this the left thumb wheel left/right can be used to adjust wiper speed (this last has come as a sw update within this year).
Wiper automation/rain sensing on Tesla is in general rather poor, I wish they would give up on their camera ideology for reliable sensors or at least made the sw good.
- adaptive cruise control is single down pull on right stalk. With lane keeping activated by a double pull. Speed adjusted with scrolling right thumb wheel and distance right thumb wheel left/right.
Agreed, apart from fiddling with navigation (which is touch in any car unless you’re willing to deal with voice assistants) 99% of my control input is via the steering wheel buttons.
What I really want is an analog electric car. Give me an electric power train with all big knobs and buttons, no touch screen, and no over the air software updates, and no phoning back home and spying on me.
This is one thing these new generation of "ipad only" cars gets completely wrong. We should be building these interfaces the same way NASA built the mars rover instead of building them like another left-pad nodejs electron app.
The feedback should be immediate without lag like an actual button. I however don't really need it to be tactile.
>As someone that does mostly city driving and is the perfect use case for an EV, I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk.
I saw a good description (on /r/4chan, no less) of you: People who constantly check in on each other to see what the latest things are to embrace/avoid. What a miserable way to live.
I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk.
Bold considering what Toyota, VW, and Ford have gotten away with over the past few decades. Surely Toyota intentionally hiding faulty brakes is at least on-par with Musk sharing a meme you didn’t agree with. Musk has done more for climate change with the electric revolution than, let’s say, VW intentionally misleading emissions testers with their vehicles.
I recently took delivery of a new Tesla and was worried that my color choice would be too flashy. Then I started noticing a ton of cars with the same color.
I understand where the OP is coming from. You over estimate what people think of you and your choices.
In the end I believe you are correct, most people just don’t care about your choices.
> As someone that does mostly city driving and is the perfect use case for an EV, I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk.
Please.
Does driving a Volkswagon mean that you support their founder which in this case was Adolf Hitler of the German Labor front?
It doesn't.
Which is why the majority of drivers do not care about any of that, and only an extreme tiny minority hold that view in the case of both VW and Tesla.
>> That and I really hate the lack of tactile buttons in those cars, and their love for a clearly unsafe "full self driving" solution
The FSD scam is valid criticism of its deceptive advertisement of its false sense of safety, which at least it is an add-on which you don't have to buy it with the care.
Respectfully to your Elon Musk / Nazi comparison you’re making (basically Goodwin’s Law right? Eventually someone was going to bring up hitler…) if the third reich were in power and selling Volkswagens I wouldn’t be buying one even if no one else cared.
Twenty years ago we would have dreamed of an all-electric superfast luxury all-American best selling practical EV. The model Y is that.
I can't speak for you, but if I asked you twenty years ago if you would have wanted that, my guess is you would have flipped for it. If I told you the price was that the CEO would be an asshole, you'd have shrugged. Obviously I'm projecting and you may have been consistent, but I also think it's possible that we often obsess over unimportant details and take great stuff for granted.
And EVs really are good, so you'll probably get one. And if not Tesla, there's a good chance that you'll be "supporting" the Chinese Communist Party or whatever.
The Nuremberg trials happened between then and now. Germany continues to facilitate and participate in the apprehension of Nazis and their collaborators, even those who are toward the end of their lives.
You must know that, and that Germany today is among the most strident opponents of anti-Semitism because of its history, and that this permeates society, especially in board rooms, populated by people who were made to reckon with the horrors committed by the Nazis as part of their basic education. Among European countries has been very accepting of refugees from war-torn regions, even non-white refugees.
Furthermore, unlike the US, Germany has been able to keep xenophobes out of control of government (while dealing with very similar domestic xenophobic movements that the US faces).
If you have credible evidence of VW's current leadership being anti-Semitic or xenophobic, share it. Otherwise your comment is gas-lighting and deception.
It’s funny that as a young-ish American, this is not what I thought of at all. Instead when I hear VW I think of the company that destroyed the lungs of a generation with cheating on emissions tests. I think you are probably right about what the person you replied to is insinuating though.
> I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk.
I don't mean this to be rude, but nobody cares that much about your car purchase. People have their own things to think about and are rarely thinking about the reasoning for your purchasing choices.
I am too. I do like the Model Y and have driven them hundreds of miles while doing rental cars. I ended up with a different EV because of Musk. I don’t make it a point to tell people this, and I don’t imagine anyone really cares why I got the particular car I did, but ethically and philosophically I didn’t get a Model Y.
You need "only" 3% of new sales to be the top selling car in the country.
That's obviously an incredible accomplishment to hit 3%, but just pointing out that calling a group of people "tiny minority" here doesn't really make any sense.
It could easily be the case that more than 50-percent of people would never buy from Tesla.
Does significant damage, second most selling vehicle? Weird. I've never considered Musk in the context of my car, much like my parents didn't consider the Toyota family when buying their car.
If we want to play the purity spiral game, we could say anyone who funds gasoline-first car companies is funding critical damage to the environment. (I assume the next step is a StrongTowns (tm) supporter telling us how cars are unnecessary, we need density, then a doomer complaining about how having children is unnecessary carbon emissions, etc...)
I am being facetious here though, I liked the Hyundai EV when I rented it, and disliked the Model X. I wound up getting a used Model 3 as my city driver, and enjoy it very much.
Tesla is a car for people who know nothing about cars and are easily impressed by buzzwords they can then use over a drink with friends. They were driving 2000 Kia and now suddenly they parrot Musk's words and have no idea about anything they just said.
https://www.greencars.com/news/the-tesla-model-y-is-the-best...
And I think Tesla is destined to expand their lead.
Tesla is the only car company that pushes hard to be a software company. Musk correctly said that the future of Tesla mostly relies on how fast it achieves full self-driving without human intervention.
Buying any other car feels archaic. As a Tesla is the only car that gets better every few months via over the air updates.