Over the last few years, I've become deeply obsessed with a tea hobby. Specifically, with specialty and high end teas such as puerh and oolong. With it, I've observed how tea is perceived around the world. In China, especially Yunnan, tea is so engrained with socializing. Anywhere people interact, tea is served. I've found if you can sit down with a friend or acquaintance and spend the few minutes to few hours one might over beer, tea can be an equally social action. It's similar, but has some notable differences in that all parties can stay sober, level headed, and even energetic.
At this point, I greatly prefer conversing over tea than over beer. It doesn't necessarily have to be about the tea, but people will naturally be curious. I couldn't recommend it more. It does require some knowledge of buying and serving high quality tea, both of which are pretty unknown in the West. I'm working on starting a importing/retailing business to share the love for that very reason.
I agree completely. I attended a conference one year, where for unusual reasons I have not seen replicated since, colleagues seemed to gravitate around coffeeshops and teahouses instead of bars and it was a revelation.
I've been a long time tea drinker but had never thought about some alternate universe where everyone was up late in a different sort of setting. It was a small difference that turned out to not actually be small at all after all.
I’d love to get out of alcohol and into tea, but caffeine gives me heart palpitations, even low caffeine tea blends can mess me up after a couple of cups (and the low caffeine blends are usually pretty boring… anyone got a suggestion?)
Have you tried any straight herbal teas? Some herbals are mixed with traditional tea leaves, so you have to read the contents to differentiate. I've run into this with mint teas -- some are straight peppermint leaves, others mix in black or green tea leaves.
To me, these are a bandaid solution to a much deeper problem: it is, somehow, socially unacceptable to abstain from alcohol in some situations.
Obviously if people are drinking these because they just like the taste, that's fine, but I think most people have these because it lets them look like they are drinking.
I’ve never drank in my life and never had any issues abstaining. “No thanks,” is almost always enough and rarely do I have anyone question why or try to pressure beyond that. Even when I was in high school or college.
It seems to me people who do drink, even if only occasionally, have a harder time justifying to themselves why they shouldn’t drink when the opportunity presents itself.
Yes - as someone with this problem, you are spot on.
That says nothing about why they have trouble abstaining.
One element of it: teasing, judgement. Sometimes you fear those reactions to your decision so you pick the easy path and avoid that type of interaction. I know it sounds silly.
And you may also fear the broader possibilities when someone asks you why you are abstaining. Lots of people do.
Does teasing and judgement happen often? I live in Vegas where being inebriated is fairly accepted but I can’t think of a time where I’ve been teased or pressured. They may be silently judging but I don’t notice or care.
I think a lot of it has to do with how you turn down a drink. I usually say, “No thanks,” or “I’m good, thanks,” and it rarely goes beyond that. When I hear people respond with, “I don’t drink,” or “I’m not drinking right now/tonight/this month,” that seems to invite discussion.
Everyone’s experiences are different though and I’m painting with a broad brush.
Valid point that how you respond invites or discourages certain types of commentary.
Otherwise - to your question, very circumstantial. Unsurprisingly, the more bro-like the setting, the higher the chance. I don’t surround myself with that environment constantly but it’s there from time to time.
I also had the same experience, but not everyone has the same qualms about rejecting other's invitations. I know for a fact that I was considered rude for politely rejecting drinks when I decided against drinking, possibly cultural.
I order soda water or whatever so I can participate in toasts and just be part of the group. If anyone questions me — which rarely happens because people understand that someone can have deeply private reasons — I say "I don't drink." If someone questioned me further, "I just don't drink" because my reason is not something I want to share with everyone (probably not the reason you're assuming).
My point is that it's not a big deal socially in my experience.
Same here, so I assume it depends a lot on one's entourage and we shouldn't generalize the way other commenters seem to enjoy. I have a group going out regularly for drinks and actually about third of them are teetotallers. No issue for either side to blend in, the only concession made is that we meet in a craft beer bar.
I know that in certain circles that some people in positions of power, for lack of a better way of putting it, socialize around drinks. The broader problem isn't necessarily being perceived as rude or odd, it's simply being left out when these things happen "because so and so wouldn't be interested in that". Everyone involved can be well intended and it can still have ripple effects.
I would say the issue is also that those do drink are protective about their habits. They get quite defensive about being judged and will respond strongly to any threats they perceive against their drinking habits. This is characteristic of most addictions. It becomes a part of the personality and therefore it can be difficult to separate the action from the person.
The same would be true of those who enjoy gaming or own cryptocurrency. At its best, we're talking about a sort of tribalism. Human psychology is complex, and our relationship with alcohol isn't completely unhealthy.
The same can be said about vegans and anti-alcoholic, so what should we say about those? Maybe that people react negatively when being condescendingly criticized?
I rarely ever drink, but love the taste of fermented beverages. So I picked up a six pack of near-beer and enjoyed it. I planned to make it a regular occasion. Then I read the nutrition label. There's a reason why alcohol doesn't have nutrition labels. You'd see the hundreds of empty calories consumed in every drink. I decided coffee and tea were better choices.
I've found kombucha also scratches the same itch for me. There's a wide variety from plain to floral to fruity to herby. It's also a nice bonus that it has the opposite effect on my gut than alcohol.
I wonder if there's anything that can pay the rent.
Bars sell a lot of $7 beer and $10 cocktails. Can you make money with tea or another replacement? If bars diminish... will there be another establishment that people go to? or, more likely I fear, everyone will just stay home.
100 cals in a calorimeter but your body isn't able to metabolize all of it. Especially if you are binge drinking, you overload how fast you can metabolize ethanol and some of it gets released in partially-metabolized states.
I was in an East Asian style grocery once and picked up some Tsingtao 0.0 and it’s the closest tasting nonalcoholic beer I have found to the regular version
Budweiser Zero is pretty awesome. I wasn’t even a regular bud fan, but in my process of ditching alcohol I tried a bunch of different zero alcohol beers and was shocked at how much I enjoyed Bud Zero.
Bud Zero really works well for me when I’m in a “I want to slam cheap beer in a dive bar” with friends, especially when if you use it to space out or end the night after a normal beer or two.
Guinness NA is one that I legitimately savor and enjoy as much as the original.
The problem with both is when it’s time to settle up. My dumb addict brain wonders why I spent all that money for an oat soda with no buzz. Anyway, what a time to have alternatives.
I enjoy that there is now so many options to share a beer with someone without the alcohol, but I am one and done. It’s calorically like drinking full sugar soda and most bars I’ve been to that sell cans tend to charge as much or more than a regular beer. Rather just drink water or seltzer at that point.
> most bars I’ve been to that sell cans tend to charge as much or more than a regular beer.
This drives me insane. There are no sin taxes on nonalcoholic beer yet they charge the same or more at the retail point. There’s just more profit, which is ridiculous. If they want people to switch they shouldn’t gouge them for doing so.
Soda water and bitters is a good hit too. Bit more interesting than plain water, every bar will be able to make it, seems to help with an upset stomach too.
Yes, angostura bitters are 45% ABV, though your typical soda water bitters is made with just a few shakes and could be given to a child without batting an eye.
Good shout though, not sure how widely known that is.
I thought the article hinted towards the companies making drinks that don't pretend to be alcohol, and are just good-tasting drinks as an alternative to alcohol but I saw the opposite. I don't see why anyone would want non-alcoholic rum.
I wonder what ever happned to Palcahol or like David Nutt's substitute? I think the fundamental issue is you wanna "get fucked up" so you basically have to either reproduce that or simulate in a way that can be easily ended on demand and won't make people behave just as badly as alcohol, reminds me of when kids get into something that isnt alcohol but the placebo affect or social pressure gets them all to play along as if it was.
I don't drink. I like thinking, so drinking is counter productive to that.
Combine that with the fact that I drink mostly water (cold or hot based on what I want), exception made for milk, ginger and honey when my throat is sore and occasionally tea "for social reasons", makes life way easier. There is never a situation like "I'm too drunk to drive"
I do like the taste of some alcoholic drinks, but between the heartburn, losing my mind and the high amount of calories, that's very low appeal. I'll happily eat something tasty in exchange
We started drinking 0% Wine when my partner started breastfeeding. Even with the little alcohol our daugther got indirectly from a glass of wine, she got hyper-active and could not sleep well in the night. Especially white wine can taste very similar, rose is ok as well, red wine is way to close to grape juice for my taste. We loved the whites in the summer mixed with soda or water.
My Mother recommended the rum or campari without alcohol, she loves them because they make you awake, and you can easily drink them during the day.
About a year ago I ran a seltzer water tap to the kitchen sink and it has been great. We go through 5 gallons of RO water carbonated to 35 PSI in about a week or two.
Can you elaborate on your system? What brand is it and what size CO2 container does it take? I have a RO system that I barely use and love carbonated water. I currently use a sodastream and despise constantly refilling the tiny CO2 bottles.
I've brewed beer on and off for over a decade, so I was able to assemble everything from gear I had laying around.
My setup is two corny kegs and a 5lb CO2 tank w/ regulator, in a chest freezer with a temp controller set to 1°C. I put everything in the basement under the kitchen and ran a line up.
I like an aggressive carbonation, so I set the regulator to 35 PSI. It takes a few days to carbonate, so I swap back and forth between the two kegs. It's a bit overkill, but its the only way I know to get chilled seltzer at the tap.
Other options:
- Buy a 5lb CO2 tank and a sodastream adapter.
- Buy a 5lb CO2 tank, regulator, and a soda bottle adapter. You can carbonate 2-liter bottles and store them in the fridge.
- Buy a homebrew kegging kit and just fill it with water.
Before you buy a CO2 tank, figure out where/how to get it refilled. I get mine at a welding supply store, and they only swap tanks, so I would be upset if I bought a nice new bottle and had to trade it for a beater.
There’s an Airgas 10 minutes down the highway from me. It was like $170 or something for a 20 pound tank plus the first fill, and costs like $40 to refill. But it will last two or three years unless you’re a maniac
I've been thinking about upgrading to a 50lb bottle. A swap on the 5lb bottle in my area runs $30, while a 50lb bottle is $40. I had a leak that cost me three 5lb bottles this year, but I could just refill the bottle myself with the 50lb.
I also use the CO2 for apple preservation, which can eat up a fair amount.
Hah interesting to hear I'm part of a trend. I drink occasionally, but I honestly have never liked the taste of alcohol and I pretty often will go out to bars/clubs and just not drink at all. The effects of alcohol are fun, but I'm also increasingly feeling like I don't need them to have fun chatting and dancing. And yeah for sure aside from the taste I'm definitely not into the health downsides.
adaptogen drinks have been heavily advertised on my social media as a way to get the "buzz" of an alcoholic beverage without the consumption of actual alcohol. i've wanted to give them a try, but they're quite expensive.
A shrub made with Pellegrino + syrupy Balsamic, or apple cider vinegar with a drop of two of stevia - herbs optional - delicious. (and butyrate producing to boot...)
Ya it does seem kind of silly. If it doesn't have caffeine or alcohol might as well just drink water or something diet. Your not getting much for your consumption of (usually) refined sugar or high GI carbs. Maybe in a social setting to pretend, but mocktails have existed for years?
I've always wondered how this is a thing. Aren't most people sober more often than intoxicated? Shouldn't most people know what being sober is like, at least from their childhood? Maybe the terminology is just odd to me.
The term is from a book, "Sober Curious: The Blissful Sleep, Greater Focus, Limitless Presence, and Deep Connection Awaiting Us All on the Other Side of Alcohol" (2018) [1]
I can see that point of distinction. I guess I'm still not getting how someone is curious about being exclusively sober if they are like most people - only drinking small amounts occasionally. It's basically the same as the days you're not drinking if you're going weeks or months between drinks. If dependant, then why switch in stuff that also has risks like kava or very sugary drinks? Just be sober, or don't, not like a real curiosity to me. I don't know. Maybe it's just not for me.
> like most people - only drinking small amounts occasionally
This probably depends on your location, but that it very much not most people in the UK. Drinking alcohol almost everyday would be considered normal here. And a lot of socialising is organised around pubs where it is customary to drink alcohol. So for many people, it may have been a long time since they have gone weeks without drinking alcohol. And they may be curious about what it is like.
Of course, not everyone drinks this much (or at all), but perhaps it gives you an idea of the sort of context in which being "sober curious" make sense as a concept.
At this point, I greatly prefer conversing over tea than over beer. It doesn't necessarily have to be about the tea, but people will naturally be curious. I couldn't recommend it more. It does require some knowledge of buying and serving high quality tea, both of which are pretty unknown in the West. I'm working on starting a importing/retailing business to share the love for that very reason.