If someone is breaking into houses in my neighborhood and a ring camera is able to identify and help apprehend the person, I would want that to happen.
But if somebody breaks into your neighbors place... You're really ok with police asking Amazon (without your knowledge, consent, or a warrant) for footage?
(Edit: Removed "the last few weeks of footage" from the last statement, which was correctly pointed out to be exaggeration.)
With a subpoena, absolutely, those need to be signed off by a judge. Warrantless, depends on the circumstance. If someone broke in between 2am and 4am, I'm fine with them requesting ring footage, explicitly for that timeframe, explicitly for the purpose of apprehending the perpetrator.
I don't agree with police using it to surveil areas without a specific person and crime in mind. I'm not sure that's happening or not.
>for the last few weeks of footage
I don't see in the article where it says they typically request weeks of footage. Are you exaggerating to strengthen your point?
Wow, that's a very different mindset than my own. Fascinating!
How about if your neighbor suspected their spouse was cheating and had a private investigator request footage from Amazon? Assuming the request was made in good faith, with a limited timeframe, and an explicit purpose?
> I'm not sure that's happening or not.
That's kinda the point, right? Police and Amazon have defined their own terms for sharing footage with no accountability to the user, and they've proven they're willing to do so.
"Without a warrant" really just means "on a whim."
> I don't see in the article where it says they typically request weeks of footage. Are you exaggerating to strengthen your point?
Whoops. Misremembered, so I suppose so. I'll edit.
>had a private investigator request footage from Amazon?
Not sequitur, PI's aren't police and don't have arrest or prosecution power. The concern in the article is about police. I would be against Amazon allowing just anyone to just browse Ring cameras.
>That's kinda the point, right? Police and Amazon have defined their own terms for sharing footage with no accountability to the user, and they've proven they're willing to do so.
Is there evidence that the police are mass surveilling people using Amazon/Ring without investigating a specific crime and/or a specific person? Please show me. If that's actually the case and not just speculation, I'm not for it.
>Whoops. Misremembered, so I suppose so. I'll edit.
No worries, I do that sometimes too; it wasn't in bad faith.
Believe me, I think police powers need some serious checks and balances and there are many examples where they go over their legal boundaries. I also think without police, there would be rampant crime, which is just as bad. My position is to get rid of bad police and keep the good ones.
> Is there evidence that the police are mass surveilling people using Amazon/Ring without investigating a specific crime and/or a specific person? Please show me. If that's actually the case and not just speculation, I'm not for it.
Oh, this is entirely speculation. I doubt it's happened, but I don't think there's anything in place to stop it, and I'm unwilling to believe in the infinite goodwill of Amazon and the police.
This is mostly a personal thing. I don't even think Amazon and the police are doing anything particularly wrong (if it's documented), I'm just not comfortable putting a surveillance device on my home. Unfortunately for me, a lot of people are...
> I'm unwilling to believe in the infinite goodwill of Amazon and the police.
Really the only thing to deter it would be the fruit of the poisonous tree metaphor. A bad cop probably wouldn't know what that is, but the prosecutor would. Fortunately it would come out in court and be public record.
> The “emergency” exception to this process allows police to request video directly from Amazon, and without a warrant. But there are insufficient safeguards to protect civil liberties in this process. For example, there is no process for a judge or the device owner to determine whether there actually was an emergency. This could easily lead to police abuse: there will always be temptation for police to use it for increasingly less urgent situations.
