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... And getting caught flat-footed against Microsoft (and Adobe, but but not as loudly) in the precise field Alphabet is supposedly the insurmountable leader.

Remind me again how big-co CEOs assume "all the risk"?



What's even the risk?

If the CEO of Google gets fired, he just ends up as the CEO of another Fortune 500 company.

If he can't even land that role, he can just go around pocketing $50k/event speaking fee. Of course, that's only if he doesn't want to degrade himself by taking on a VP-level role at another Fortune 500 company.


No need to find a new job, 4% interest @ 225M USD = 9M USD yearly.


Oh, it's even better than that. This is just his compensation for last year. Add all previous years to it, plus stock he owns. Plus, the ability to get low interest loans which he can spend acquiring more assets.


> This is just his compensation for last year.

$218M of it is a stock grant on a 3 year schedule, so no, it is not.


He's already a billionaire I think. 225M is just the fresh grant's value.


Guys like that will just go and manage their money when they leave. Investments in various things, no real need to do much.


Heck, at Sundar Pichai’s compensation, you can blow through $1M a month, never invest a dime, and still live out the rest of your life.


226M / 50k ~ 4000 events a year. Poor fellow couldn’t pull that off.


Bold to assume anybody needs $226m a year to live.


I dunno. Big arse yachts tend to need staff and maintenance. :)


That's where he can utilize HoloLens and Apple AR virtual appearances.


Why would he possibly need 226M/year? Believe it or not, most of the world manages fine with (much) less than 1M/year.


It's triennial.


>Remind me again how big-co CEOs assume "all the risk"?

That's a fairytale almost as preposterous as the tooth fairy.


When I was a kid I put a tooth under my pillow and I woke up to find a dollar bill.

That right there is more evidence for the tooth fairy than you’ll ever find in favor of CEOs assuming risk.


> That right there is more evidence for the tooth fairy than you’ll ever find in favor of CEOs assuming risk.

I quit my $400k/yr fintech job to be CEO of a company whose primary customers use our tool to make Trump and Biden video game memes on TikTok.


The original comment was talking about big-co CEOs. Your company doesn't seem like it would qualify yet :)


> Remind me again how big-co CEOs assume "all the risk"?

Does anyone seriously believe this? I see it all the time as a "comeback" against CEOs, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone arguing that they actually are the ones that assume all the risk.


Zuckerberg took "full responsibility" in the last round of failures too.

Though he isn't injecting his money back into the company.

Full responsibility, but not too much.


Talk is cheap. "Taking full responsibility" is also cheap, that's why CEOs often do it and fire 5-20% of their staff without blinking an eye.


How did you get from "taking all the risk" to "taking full responsibility"? Both mean entirely different things and you can easily have one without the other.

i.e. a lead surgeon can and should take "full responsibility" for what happens in the OR, but they obviously neither can nor will (and I also don't think should) shoulder "all the risk" for what happens in the OR (or even most of it).


He also took millions why firing thousands of people.


The stock price is his full responsibility.


Is this a serious question? Pichai will not experience hardship in any circumstance. His access to a roof, food, healthcare, quality of life, etc. are not in danger, now or in the future. The worst possible outcome for him still leaves many more zeroes in his personal finances than the vast majority of employees will ever see at any point in their life.



Their compensation doesn’t come from assuming more risk.

They are essentially celebrities with a personal brand that corporations will hire to have the celebrity’s name as head the org.

A good celebrity can bring fresh energy and new atmosphere to an organisation.

It’s unclear whether the average CEO is worth their compensation, but what is clear is that bad leadership can tank an organisation to zero.


In what world was Pichai Sundararajan a celebrity? Before Google surely not and now you'd say he is one BECAUSE of the CEO job or?


Celebrity within their industry, or at least within their organisation.


The question still stands.


> Remind me again how big-co CEOs assume "all the risk"?

I have never once heard anyone make this claim.


I assume they are confusing CEOs with entrepreneurs and investors.


It's a claim repeated very frequently around here when people criticize exorbitant compensation packages for execs.

For instance, see [0] below by fallingknife.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35665329


That's not what that comment says, it says there are massive risks in REPLACING a CEO, it says nothing about risks the CEO is taking.


"the massive risk and uncertainty of replacing a CEO"

This is not what we're talking about. This is about risk to the company, not risk to the CEO.

"Essentially CEOs are able to hold the board hostage."

Exactly. There is no risk to the CEO. They hold all the cards.


> Remind me again how big-co CEOs assume "all the risk"?

Who specifically said they assume "all the risk" that we are refuting here?


Reputational risk does affect the supply of viable CEO candidates (here we are deriding Pichai for perceived Google failures), but it’s far from the only factor. The main reason CEO total comp is so high in big companies is to align the CEO with the interests of shareholders. Something the layoffs with likely also aligned with.


Guy has made 226M in a year. He won't have to work another day in his life. What reputational risk are you talking about?


The risk is that all google failures, whether simply perceived or real, are publicly attributed to him. This is real and is one of many factors that influences the willingness of qualified candidates to seek CEO roles in the first place, let alone of very large, very well known companies. But it is certainly not the only factor, and it’s not even a very significant factor in most cases, when it comes to determining CEO comp.

The real people who “take all the risk” are the investors (and they obviously don’t take “all” the risk). Somehow this platitude started getting applied to executives, but that has always been based on a misunderstanding of how executive comp is typically structured.


It's a good thing he made over 50 lifetimes of income in a single year then.


So his ego gets hurt, but not his wallet? I wish I had that risk! Gimme!


What's the risk there? That some people might be unhappy with him while he's sipping champagne in his multi million villa? Sign me up.


Comp doesn't have to be high to be aligned. The reason it is so high is because of the massive risk and uncertainty of replacing a CEO. There are thousands of people at Google who would be perfectly fine CEOs and be willing to do it for small fraction of what Sundar Pichai costs, but how do you find them? Hiring is such an inexact process that there's a large chance that the guy you chose won't be one of those competent people. And a bad CEO at a company the size of Google can cost hundreds of billions of dollars. So this gives a competent CEO leverage to raise his comp to very high levels. When Pichai asks for $200 million, he knows that the board will give it to him because it just makes financial sense. They're not going to risk hundreds of billions of dollars on a potential bad CEO when they can pay their current CEO 0.1% of that to stay. Essentially CEOs are able to hold the board hostage.


This explanation you’ve cooked up is basically just a fan fiction. Any CEO who tried to “hold their board hostage” would be saying goodbye to their job, and likely their career, in short order. Pichai’s salary is $2 million. The rest of his compensation is incentives. Almost all of his compensation comes from incentive packages designed to align his interests with the interests of shareholders.


So he could perform so poorly he gets $0 in incentives, collects his $2,000,000 salary, gets fired, and still make in one year more than the average US household will in the next ~25 years.


Does it bother you at all this this statement is just factually incorrect? The stock is down about 50% give or take over the past year and a half.


Everything I’ve said is 100% factually correct. The bulk of his pay comes from performance incentives (defined by internal, non-share-price-related performance metrics). In the past he’s had a seperate incentive package based on how google stock did benchmarked against the S&P100 index. I don’t know if he still has that, but he’d still be performing well against that metric if he did. Google stock is up about 100% from early 2020. Hope this helps you understand how these incentive packages work a bit better.


No it’s not. It was in the 70 something range in early 2020 and lately it’s been 90 something. And regardless you still have to demonstrate support for your conclusion, which is that his compensation is aligned with shareholders. It’s not.

What we actually have here and with CEO pay in general at large organizations is what’s pretty well known as a principal/agent problem, where the manager class sets the rules for themselves in a way that results in the transfer of assets from shareholders to themselves.


It was ~$55 in March 2020, and most recently closed at $105. But the two key points you seem to be missing are:

1. Not all incentive packages are tied to share price. Many of them are tied to other metrics that the (shareholder elected) board decide are appropriate. This is where the bulk of Pichai’s comp comes from.

2. When they are tied to share price, they tend to be benchmarked. In this case Pichai’s share price incentives have been benchmarked against the S&P100, against which Google has been doing perfectly well. The reason for this is because directors generally don’t task CEOs with preventing economic downturns, and they typically want any incentives they create to be as effective under those conditions as they would be at any other time.

The shareholders are absolutely setting the rules for the executives here.


When you picked the moment of the worldwide Covid crash as your reference point, you are telling everyone that you are not trustworthy.

Riding the wave of market alpha is not an accomplishment.


It’s no worse than picking a market high preceding an ongoing recession as a reference, as the parent commenter did. The point is that his stock performance incentives are not tied to the absolute value of the stock, as the parent commenter is mistakenly claiming. Most of his performance based incentives don’t even relate to stock price, as the parent commenter is also mistakenly claiming. But the ones that do are tied to the stock’s performance against a benchmark. That benchmark has had the same ups and downs as the rest of the market, and Google’s stock has been tracking against it very well. Something that is an achievement, and that’s what google’s shareholder elected directors decided to reward him for with performance based incentives.

These are very simple concepts, and while you can be forgiven for not already knowing them, aspiring to retain your ignorance certainly isn’t admirable.


Risk is unevenly distributed in corporations, and employees often have more to lose on a personal level


I get your point, but to be precise, it’s more that the impact is greater, because the very nature of being an employee is the willingness to trade supposed and perceived security and ease for the potential of gains.


That’s just a story told by employers. The reality is the very nature of being an employee in most cases is to be exploited and expendable, last in line and first on the chopping block.


That makes employment sound like gambling!


Who is going to jail in the Theranos case?


This is true for small or medium sized private businesses; shareholder run, large corporations, not so much.


> And getting caught flat-footed against Microsoft (and Adobe, but but not as loudly)

Where does Adobe fit into this, are they even competitors?


I never thought I'd say this but I prefer Microsoft products to google these days and steer clients that way.


> Remind me again how big-co CEOs assume "all the risk"?

Notice how everyone in this thread is calling Sundar out and not other people in the org who may be at fault too? It's the buck stops here thing.


A few negative comments on an internet forum don't really affect his $226M compensation.



Sorry, who are you quoting?


They are still employees, not owners.


When the CEO and CFO sign off on the financial statements, they assume an extraordinary amount of risk. If there is fraud occurring in the financial reporting of their company, they will be severely disciplined. I suggest reading up on Sarbanes-Oxley Section 302[0] and the Enron[1] and WorldCom[2] accounting scandals. Sarbanes-Oxley was issued as a response to the aforementioned scandals and lays out the bulk of the risk that a CEO and other executives take on.

[0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/7241

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldCom_scandal


At Enron and Worldcom the CEOs were committing fraud. They brought that in themselves. It wasn't a "risk" they assumed. This is a bit of a ridiculous statement.


I’m not discussing the CEOs from those scandals. I’m discussing the ramifications of the scandals that have been passed onto present day CEOs. The GP asked what risk current CEOs assume. I linked them directly to Section 302 of Sarbanes-Oxley, which is the authoritative body on risk that a CEO assumes for a publicly-traded company in the US.




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