Habits are more powerful than self-control and discipline.

Imagine every time you make a conscious decision to do something you expend willpower points. You have a only a set number of willpower points a day.

Some things you like, some things you don't, and that depends how much they will cost. Choosing not to do something can also costs points, because it's a habit.

Habits are a way to reduce or discount this choice associated cost.

Now, I recently thought a lot about discipline, motivation, dreaming (for the future) and hope. And I think the problem with discipline is that, everyone has a different definition on it, and it also changes between context. Military discipline is not the same as daily discipline. Soldiers are plenty undisciplined in their daily lives.

When people talk about discipline they think "doing things that one doesn't want doing" but it's really not that simple. It all ties to hopefulness and dreaming for the future.

And s someone who's experienced this first hand due to a traumatic childhood: People who don't value themselves won't be disciplined for their own sakes, but they can be incredibly disciplined for the sake of others. So, there's a component of seeing value in what you do, or believe that there is value even if you don't see it.

So, like everything in life, discipline is multi faceted.

As an example, people talk about dopamine and motivation, but I've realised that it's probably closely tied to discipline too. You need to be motivated to be disciplined.

I've recently started becoming more "disciplined" by being incredibly intentional about trying to regulate my dopamine baseline throughout the day. I started doing it to feel less miserable throughout the day, but ended up being more disciplined as a side effect. And I've also realised that this has increased my daily "willpower" budget from earlier.

I think the main component is that after I wake up, I have a normal warm shower, and after I rinse myself. However, then I turn to cold water. There's some research[^1] that shows that this creates an effect of slow dopamine release.

Next thing to do is be mindful about what gives you dopamine spikes, and how to not have them too often, since if you do it too much your body becomes "used" too too much dopamine. Basically, biology likes homeostasis, so it will find a way to achieve it.

This includes not drinking coffee too early too, but around midday/noon, and trying to couple coffee with activities you _want_ to enjoy, but not necessarily do, because coffee increases dopamine levels[^2], so it's "hacking" your brain to consider this reward-seeking behaviour by pairing the artificical dopamine increase with something you would like to enjoy (like say exercise, or learning a new skill, or work). There's other obvious benefits of caffeine like improved focus and concentration.

Now, all this might sound like "too much dopamine," since it's very "do this that gives you dopamine, do that that give you dopamine", but it's not that you're getting spikes in dopamine like you get from sex (or masturbation, or cocaine, etc), it's small releases that you strategically pair with activities that are good for you. Over time as they become habits you won't have to consume willpower for them, and you won't have to constantly be so intentional about what you do.

There's also the other side of the coin, like "reducing" dopamine. Doing stuff that you don't enjoy can suck, but sometimes that stuff is good for you. This is where the psychological component comes in. Thank yourself (think of yourself as your future self thanking your past/current self) for engaging in these activities after you do them. Gratitude releases dopamine, too[^3]. So the brain then associates this as reward seeking behaviour, and it becomes less hard in the future. It's not surprise that drug addicts will go to incredible lengths (I was a drug addict myself, so talking first-hand here) to get their substance of choice even if it's a giant chore and not enjoyable. Why? Reward-seeking behaviour; the reward is the dopamine, the behaviour is getting and consuming the drug. One could say they're incredibly disciplined to get that high (it's a weird way of putting it, but alas).

I've also—somewhat unsuccessfully due to the childhood trauma mentioned earlier—tried to pick up mediation. It's helped me initially with focus and mindfulness, but caused some emotional problems. They are always there, but for a lack of better word, my chaotic mind was probably somewhat of a "defence" mechanism to mitigate CPTSD[^4]. This is a home-brewed theory me and my therapist came to. Going through the stages of grief for my "lost childhood" and my therapist's open-mindedness to psilocybin-aided therapy helped resolve this. I've done Psilocybin later on my own as well, and I've managed to make a lot of progress even on my own (but I have to thank my therapist and myself for developing the mental tools to explore those in a productive way). I wouldn't blanket recommend psychedelics since I've had bad trips too, but they've helped me immensely.

Anyway, I've went a bit on a tangent here. Back to dopamine control. I can luckily now safely meditate without "relapsing", and that's helped a lot with focus, energy and overall willpower. It helps because I can choose what to focus on, and my mind is less ADHD-y. So this means you have to spend less "willpower points" on returning your mind to what matters to your "conscious self" (or ego). I don't know if I have ADHD or not, maybe; but it's likely related to the stuff I talked about earlier.

Meditation isn't very enjoyable for me, but as I started pairing it with gratitude and started seeing incredible benefits in my daily focus after only just about a week or so of daily 10-minute meditations, it's started to become enjoyable... Interesting even.[^5]

Listening to music releases dopamine too, but be careful you don't do too much of "dopamine layering" since the activity might be less enjoyable in the future without all these "helpers", or it can offset your baseline too much. So, if you're at the gym for example, listen to music some days, but do a few days where you are doing it without the music. Try (it isn't always easy) to enjoy the atmosphere of the environment too.

Always remember to be grateful to yourself after these activities, too. Progress is sometimes too slow to see, and for progress-minded people, it can be a bit discouraging. But the progress is there, even though you might not realise it immediately. Trust yourself you're doing the right thing if you know it to be right.

Also, another big component in this whole thing is energy. So make sure your body is treated well in a holistic matter, not just your brain. The body and the brain are a unit, and we often forget that in our day-to-day-lives, I think. So, make sure you get enough sleep, eat healthy. It helps to take probiotics, especially with modern diets; I take mine daily, but you don't have to be as rigid with it as I am (but I also have digestive issues and my GP suggested probiotics and multivitamins; it helps a lot for me). Drink water, but depending on where you live don't drink tap water; buy a Brita water jug (or whatever the equivalent is in your region). It's easier to make tough decisions when you're not exhausted, and that means you expend much less willpower points when you do make them.

It's late and I might've forgotten some stuff. I won't write much more so I don't risk you or someone else tl-dr-ing this (as I genuinely believe it's all good advice) but feel free to ask any follow-up questions if you're interested.

[^1]: Nicely summarised by Dr Huberman here https://hubermanlab.com/the-science-and-use-of-cold-exposure...

[^2]: This is well researched I think; just google "coffee dopamine" and take your pick

[^3]: This is more nuanced. You really need to do this with your full intent behind it. Murmuring a throwaway "thanks buddy" won't have the same effect. I combined this with journaling. I like to think __why_ was this good for me. Why do I think it helped me, how could it improve my life. Another big component with me is how I can improve the lives of people around me, since I'm a bit of a people pleaser. So, I like to muse on that too. If my life is good, I'm in a position to help others improve their lives, etc.

[^4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_post-traumatic_stress_...

[^5]: I recommend reading The Mind Illuminated book. Here's an Amazon UK link: https://amzn.eu/d/6wZtqQb

What the parent was trying to say is that you can form healthy habits even if you're not disciplined.

I have the discipline but I think the key is discipline + actually loving it, loving the thing that you are doing on average. Loving the process of discipline + loving the vision that you are working towards. I think that the passion and inspiration alone are not sufficient because there are always things you don't want to work on and you may really not feel like it sometimes, on the other hand, discipline for the sake of discipline without appreciation - having to push yourself... no. There must be both push and pull. If you don't feel any pull or if it's much weaker than the push then it most likely means that the sacrifice is not worth it or maybe you are doing way too much and not scheduling any time to appreciate the present moment.

Oh, yeah.

I do luvs my programming. I couldn't imagine doing this for something I hate.

I should add that having a completely finished product, actively being used by end-users is also a very good feeling.

I think that's the general theme of this. So long as a significant chunk of the work (i.e. 1/3) is genuinely enjoyable just for what it is, the other, more boring work is also more pleasant because: 1) - it feels like a part of the bigger picture that you like (i.e. whether you are doing something really boring or maybe earning money to buy yourself more time) and 2 - just conditioning, getting good emotions from one part of the work is partially transferred to the boring stuff and it needs to happen on an ongoing basis.

The fact that there are boring parts to it (which one can still learn to appreciate) provides the contrast and makes the highs much higher. However, there's also something I did not mention initially. I'm spending considerable time on appreciating the now, I would set aside 40 min every day to do Zen meditation and it really does help with the discipline / will power but perhaps most importantly - appreciating work that's boring - if I can get myself to enjoy sitting still or walking circles around the room, I can treat boring work not unlike extra Zen practice that sharpens me further. It does not have to be Zen practice but just ensuring that you are spending some time enjoying the now basically every day is critical when you you are often trying to make predictions about the future which is stress and anxiety inducing.

That sounds like an excellent practice (and it also requires discipline).

This thread has really made me realize what a disability ADHD is. I struggle to watch a movie from start to finish, even one I have been really looking forward to. I dream of being able to concentrate and work on what I want to do for an entire day. My ratio at the moment is about 1-2 hours of work in every 8 hour day.

Hitting the time on a regular day (not every day is like that) requires ongoing effort to sustain it. I spend 20 min / day doing time tracking and performance analysis (I think it makes more time than it costs). So for example if I want to hit 10h on a day which is purely dedicated to work, I wake up at 6, I end work at 8 and go to sleep at 9:30. That gives me 14h between 6 and 8, so it means that the combined time for the morning and midday routines must be under 4h. I don't stress about doing too little work on any given day, but I will always look at it the next day and consider what I could do better with the execution of the previous day . Then it mostly becomes a habit, I would just do it like a robot. Not every day is like that, but most are.

I'm sorry to hear about your disability. I don't know much about ADHD but perhaps you would find the following tips useful. You could look into Zen meditation - a good book with the how is 3 Pillars of Zen, feel free to discard the supernatural stuff and just focus on regular practice. One of the main benefits of Zen practice is increasing your attention span. It's extremely challenging to sustain focus on nothing and I still struggle with this despite doing it regularly for 5 years. It could be as simple as counting exhales and resetting the count every 10 breaths, expect to lose track fast but you get better at it with regular practice and this directly translates to your attention span when doing other things. Maybe you could also benefit from journaling - try to successively increase work blocks by a small amount every week or so and keep track of it. Other tips: avoid scrolling social media, get good sleep - you may need up to 8.5h of bed time / 8h of sleep, it's easy to be chronically sleep depleted without being aware about it and everything is much harder without good sleep, do quick breaks while working, i.e. 1 minute pause every 15 min just looking at the timer (not email!).

quick gist is when people say motivation to train or do anything there's really a specific process we go through that determines to what extent we stick with anything

    1 inspiration
    2 motivation 
    3 intention 
    4 discipline 
    5 habit 
    6 passion

sibling comment is correct here, discipline is necessary but only 1/6 of the framework. for long term sustainability we need habits plus higher order reasons to want to do it. passion ideally, or boosts of positive energy from inspiration and motivation.

It always remains circular. Doing X to compel you to do Y just shifts the problem from Y to X. There is no “bottom” that is guaranteed to work.

Sometimes you just need to get things out of your system. I feel much better after a good sob. The brain is not a perfectly designed machine, but a bug-ridden contraption that can do some amazing things. Of course, it would be much better to not feel the need to sob. But sobbing can be used to regain focus if you give yourself the freedom to let loose.

So, it should be okay for humans to let it out, too.

Break big problem into sequence of small and achievable goals. Getting small gratifications by completing small steps helps to maintain mental balance and avoid burn-out and dead-lock.

Sorry it took so long to respond. I browse HN on my breaks, and it's catch-as-catch-can.

I keep my eyes on the prize at the end. For me, it's all about having a finished product after all the agita.

There's also a lot of (in my case) interest in the Mission of the project. One project that I did, took ten years to really start coming into its own. During that time, I was pretty much left on my own, and even outright abused (by the end users, and also "gatekeepers," who wanted to control the project).

It all came out great, in the end. The project was taken over by a new team, and very little of my original code remains in the current version.

I'm happy about that. Most of what I wanted to do, was push the idea of the project (an infrastructure-level resource locator).

I agree. I like to ship everything I write; even if I don't actually ship it.

But actually, surprisingly, things you don't initially want to do can become positive habits in a very short time period. Like, 3-5 times. Of course, the flip side is also true; I've often fallen OUT of workout habits just as easily. But at the end of the day, perfection is not the goal. You shouldn't avoid starting a new positive habit just because you know you'll probably lose the habit again. You can always pick it up once more!

Someone who is a regular gym-goer for a few years, then becomes sedentary, then picks up running for a half decade, then moves on to cycling, then falls out of the habit, is probably better off than someone who never bothers to try.

That's what the entire internet tells me, but it just doesn't happen to me.

Whatever it is that I wish to keep up, I have to decide to do it every time, roughly the same as I did the first couple of times.

Yes, that includes brushing the teeth.

Of course there are habitual things in my life, but I can see no common characteristics. Total time spend certainly isn't it.

Amusingly, this has made it almost trivial for me to quit smoking despite being a smoker for many years. I just never developed a habit for it, so dropping it was as simple as just not smoking.

The key thing is to do/start with the same thing everyday, with slight variations in the end. Make it an autopilot routine during which you can be mentally elsewhere. Only then you may think “I have to…” and [click] it’s done before you even notice.

I like to establish the habit of consistently succeeding. I feel that we often need to start with "small" successes, then gradually increase the complexity/ambition.

Before you know it, you're routinely completing pretty damn ambitious stuff.

When I was an accountant, my teacher once said "How do you eat an elephant?" (dramatic pause) "One bite at a time."

Frequently, the line between amazing achievement and wistful thinking is shutting up, turning off the "what if" part of the brain, and plowing into it.

I'm not saying people shouldn't think ahead, but smart people usually have the opposite problem of mental over-investment toward non-result-generating thoughts.

And yet the only way to win is not to play. So I work as hard as I possibly can force myself to in hopes that I’ll be able to retire as early as possible.

Any advice on how to make eating frogs easier, I’d love to hear it. I get up early, I take cold showers every day, I do HIIT workouts every other day, and I have a complex productivity system for tracking what I need to do, I ruthlessly prioritize, and I do a pretty good job and closing the laptop and not working in the evening and weekends. I hate it all and can’t wait for when I can stop all of it.

Remember to spend at least some of your time doing something for joy. Do something new. Something you're bad at. Drop it the second it's not fun anymore. Or take a trip. Ensure you're spending time on friends and family. Just waste time sometimes and don't feel bad about it. Focus on a task thats not actually the top priority but is more fun now and again.

It doesn't get easier. You pick up more tasks and harder tasks. You can make things that were once harder things easier things, but you're always going to be working hard if you're improving. Make sure you do it sustainably -- it's a marathon and not a sprint. If you rush to retire but don't build a life you want to retire to it will just make it worse.

But even if you read a thousand different ways to explain/justify/dress up "do hard things", you only need one to really click with you.

Of course, there's plenty of expensive fitness equipment gathering dust, but don't let someone else tell you "you don't need all that stuff" if it works for you. If it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid!

I’ve found the same for myself, if I want to feel solid about my day, I need to get up early and exercise and figure everything else out from there.

I absolutely hate it, but I can’t deny how much better I feel. I’m hoping that one day my brain will flip and I’ll genuinely enjoy it, but it is still very much a need and not a want.

Everything after is still gravy!

It is a negotiation and fight every single morning, and I don’t see myself enjoying it at any point.

I started opening GitHub issues I never expect anyone else to read to help myself explore and verbalize a problem without having to nag anyone else about it; it’s been helpful and also yields a lot of what is effectively documentation of the “why” behind our design choices. Not sure if it would work as well on public repos or if you work with anyone that tries to max their GitHub stats (eg average issue close time) though.

etc.

Real killjoy.

Popularized by Brian Tracy with the book "Eat that Frog - Stop procrastinating and get more done in less time",

the idea is attributed to Mark Twain there, but was actually recorded by Nicolas Chamfort: "One should eat a frog every morning, to find the rest of the day less disgusting, if you have to spend it in the world". The translation from the French tradition of the "nausea" to pragmatist Union America, where it came to mean "do the hardest first as a strategy", fits.

When do you get to sleep to allow for that early start?

I'm a morning person. My wife is not...

Couldn’t imagine doing this, purely considering the implications of going to bed with the sun up and offsetting my schedule to accommodate a commute that early.

People do, in fact, do this. Absolutely fucking baffling to me, but they do.

Whether you can or should do it depends heavily on your particular circumstances, of course. But when I started doing it, I wondered why more people weren’t talking about it. Personally, I find it fantastic.

Reminds me of some friends that work third shift, and they’re working through nights and sleeping during the day and I don’t get how they pull it off.

Let's just say, that, at 18, my life was a dumpster fire, and it took a lot of work to get things back on beam.

I've spent my entire adult life as a member of a Fellowship that is all about keeping on beam.