> In Convex, the application and database types are automatically equivalent because the entire data pipeline from frontend to database uses the same exact types and definitions... There is no adapter code between languages because everything we write is just TypeScript.
It may actually be fine to just require everything to be typescript, but the idea that you'd require your application be written in the same language as your data store, and thus implement a different data store for each language you might want to write an app in (and not share between languages)... would formerly be thought of as pretty ridiculous?
But maybe it's not anymore?
But that seems to be the requirement for "the application and database types are automatically equivalent because the entire data pipeline from frontend to database uses the same exact types and definitions," yes?
In general, most of the purported benefits of convex seem to effectively require the db in the same language as the app, to make it all so seamless.
I guess we'll see if Convex can get popular enough to spawn lots of "what I wish I knew about convex a year ago" and "Goodbye Convex, hello Postgresql" posts...
> It may actually be fine to just require everything to be typescript, but the idea that you'd require your application be written in the same language as your data store, and thus implement a different data store for each language you might want to write an app in (and not share between languages)... would formerly be thought of as pretty ridiculous?
The vision is definitely aspirational, and is reflecting on the fact that JS/TS is becoming overwhelmingly the most popular language for projects. With things like React Native, for many teams even mobile apps are taken care of all on one language.
There will obviously always be apps written in other languages, and in those cases, a bit more type mapping will be necessary, because (for now) Convex functions are always side-effect free, automatically cached JS/TS running in a very particular runtime. But we'll work on making that translation as smooth as possible in our client libraries.
We have a Python client library out now ( https://pypi.org/project/convex/ ) and a Rust one coming soon, just to keep us honest in this respect.
> I guess we'll see if Convex can get popular enough to spawn lots of "what I wish I knew about convex a year ago" and "Goodbye Convex, hello Postgresql" posts...
I see. So, when you say "the application and database types are automatically equivalent because the entire data pipeline from frontend to database uses the same exact types and definitions", can that apply somehow to python and rust client libraries too?
What about "all write operations on the database are done in embedded functions"? For the python and rust client libraries, do you write these embedded functions in python or rust, or typescript/JS? Do you effectively have to write a specialized update procedure in typescript for every update you want to do? This starts seeming harder to spin as an advantage if you aren't typescript in the first place. ("A custom stored procedure required for every update" is actually not something anyone's been looking for!)
The OP arguments seem to me to be written assuming you are writing typescript in your app, it's unclear to me how the advantages you claim translate if you are not -- such that I figured the product was actually only for typescript apps! It would be interesting to see a rewrite of it that explicitly targets those writing in, say, python or rust.
Folks for whom TypeScript is a big part of their project are going to be the most natural fit for Convex.
But no, not necessarily exclusively TypeScript. For example, the existence of the Python client library is due to developer demand. Some users had ML jobs that are triggered by Convex applications or reported outcomes into Convex.
The embedded functions are always TypeScript. The experience is pretty smooth in other languages as well-but the degree of this is largely dependent on how easily the type systems map from e.g. Python to TypeScript and how our client library can infer things in a way that feels native or requires little of your involvement.
It may actually be fine to just require everything to be typescript, but the idea that you'd require your application be written in the same language as your data store, and thus implement a different data store for each language you might want to write an app in (and not share between languages)... would formerly be thought of as pretty ridiculous?
But maybe it's not anymore?
But that seems to be the requirement for "the application and database types are automatically equivalent because the entire data pipeline from frontend to database uses the same exact types and definitions," yes?
In general, most of the purported benefits of convex seem to effectively require the db in the same language as the app, to make it all so seamless.
I guess we'll see if Convex can get popular enough to spawn lots of "what I wish I knew about convex a year ago" and "Goodbye Convex, hello Postgresql" posts...