If I scream at my wife that she is an ugly, useless person, that is legal. If ten minutes later I say ignore that, I want to be with you, that is also legal. It would still be abusive.
So you’re suggesting Elon abused these employees privately? Because I’m not seeing any public abuse, especially not at any identifiable group of employees. I have no idea what your comment is supposed to mean.
> So you’re suggesting Elon abused these employees privately
No, I didn't. It seems pretty clear that you think his public behavior was AOK. Many people, including me and the person you originally responded to, think Musk has little regard about the effect his behavior has on his new employees.
Most people consider getting laid off to be a significant disruption to their lives: their finances, their reputation, and often their mental health. Doing that to 3700 people (or whatever) and then a day later saying, "So do you want to work here or not?" doesn't cancel out what happened a day or two before. Do you understand the old phrase, "you can't unring the bell"?
If it were an honest mistake then it would have been easier to digest but it seems like this guy (musk) has no regard for people. If i was a twitter employee i’d go back, buy my time and sort out my finances, then leave for a better job mid project. Not illegal either but he should be treated with the same lack of respect.
It doesn’t matter what I think about his public behavior. If you have an example of Elon abusing his employees I’d be interested in seeing it. Posting Reddit-tier memes doesn’t seem like abuse to me. Unless you consider being cringe abuse.
You could argue layoffs are abuse. But you’d have to convince me Twitter’s specific implementation of layoffs are more abusive than any other company’s. From what I read, 3 months severance was offered, which they have no legal obligation to offer. That doesn’t seem abusive to me.
> If you have an example of Elon abusing his employees I’d be interested in seeing it.
I don't know how to say this any more clearly. Laying people off and then days later asking them to rejoin is just jerking people around. You might not agree, but that is exactly the abuse this subthread has been about. Not memes, not secret stuff that I claim to be privy to.
> You could argue layoffs are abuse.
This is exactly what I and the person you originally responded to were pointing at as abusive. But not just the layoffs; it was the layoffs then asking for a do-over just a day or two later. For someone worth $200,000,000,000 dollars, firing and rehiring hundreds or thousands of people might be seen as indecisive or fickle behavior, but to those employees it could be quite a lot of turmoil.
> But you’d have to convince me Twitter’s specific implementation of layoffs are more abusive than any other company’s.
Why? Does it need to be worse than any other company layoff to be considered abuse? Why is that your bar of "abusive"? It needs to be worse than any other company, so if other companies push this slowly it becomes progressively more ok to you?
Or should we consider other similar layoffs (buying a company, stripping it of workers to lower cost, increase gain for the capitalist) as abuse as well? I'm on the latter camp as it seems most on this thread are.
> From what I read, 3 months severance was offered, which they have no legal obligation to offer. That doesn’t seem abusive to me.
Does it become abusive for you when it's at scale? If you do that to 10-20 employees I might see it as less abusive. When you do that to 3k+ it is, morally, more abusive.
I don't think their point is that the situations are completely equitable but rather that your logic of "it is legal and therefore not abuse" is clearly not the case, as their scenario is abusive and likely legal.
Just because something is legal does not mean it's not abusive. Every time you play 5D chess with people's livelihood you are effectively abusing their good will. For Twitter: good luck retaining great employees. Also good luck finding other people willing to work there if through some sort of miracle Twitter survives.
there is no point in being a rich country if your citizens, on average, live like crap. you are not rich, a few select ones are wealthy beyond comprehension, there is a constantly shrinking middle class and most people live through hell every freaking day.
