What you are going to get is people separating out into 2 camps, those that believe in individuality, and those that believe in more collectivism.
This is a divide that extends well beyond programming and this topic.
People that support GitHub actions believe in the concept of "greater good" and believe the actions of GitHub are ethical because it prevented harm to the community
People that oppose GitHub actions reject the idea of "the greater good" and believe this individual should have had the right to do with their property (i,e their code) anything they wanted and the responsibility was upon the people consuming / using that code to vet it before use.
Except that use of GitHub implies you see a benefit to the collectivist use of GitHub's property, which is why you agree to GitHub's terms when using their property.
If I'm leasing a part of my land to you (and others), and your use of your assets on my land has the potential to harm other users of my land - you'll be asked to leave. I have a business to run. You are still free to take your property to your own patch of land and do with it what you will. Your freedom has not been compromised. You just assumed a freedom you did not have - which is the use of my land in an unfettered way.
> What you are going to get is people separating out into 2 camps, those that believe in individuality, and those that believe in more collectivism.
I am extremely individualistic. Github is also an "individual" that has its own private rights.
The author of this library absolutely had the right to write code, change it, etc. He does not have the right to use Github as a delivery mechanism for malware.
I don't really see it that way -- GitHub is run by a company to (albeit somewhat nebulously) make money. They almost certainly made this call because distributing an obviously malicious package like this was damaging to their brand, not through some philosophical framework.
Expecting a company to have a moral framework is just setting yourself up for disappointment. They will always just do what they think will maximize their long term ROI. Possibilities lay between "enlightened self interest" and "barefaced self interest."
> What you are going to get is people separating out into 2 camps, those that believe in individuality, and those that believe in more collectivism.
I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, but we're diametrically opposed on how these two groups are allocated. I.e., the people you're labelling as collectivists I are in the other group, and vice versa. People who think GitHub did right are a real me-first bunch, not collectivists.
I'm not sure how we get to me-first when the story is one actor using the wide-cast popularity of packages he had admin rights to to intentionally cause harm.
It's a "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" situation.
It's a bit mind-boggling that FOSS authors who give their work away for free are the selfish baddies, and Microsoft of all people, are the communistic heroes in your telling.
> It's a bit mind-boggling that FOSS authors who give their work away for free are the selfish baddies
This is a straw man. No one made this generalization.
Marak, specifically, is a "selfish baddy", and it has nothing to do with FOSS. It has to do with his abuse of Github, npm, and Faker.js (which other people also contributed to) to distribute malware.
None of that can be generalized to a position about FOSS, Microsoft, or any other nonsense you're trying to extrapolate. It's specifically about a bad actor who was removed from a platform.
>> It's a "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" situation.
> It's a bit mind-boggling that FOSS authors who give their work away for free are the selfish baddies, and Microsoft of all people, are the communistic heroes in your telling.
The discussion is about Github - microsoft - undoing the author's changes, the guy I replied to saying that this was good because he felt the author was "doing harm". So he definitely is saying that microsoft are the heroes there defeating "harm". And since he is supposed to be "doing harm" for his own benefit, the FOSS author being overridden by microsoft is the "selfish baddie".
For my edification, if you have a moment you can you help me understand where my comment failed to hew to a valid analysis of that part of the discussion and became some nasty straw manning activity?
Not all FOSS are selfish baddies. Not even most. Not even many.
But Marak specifically is, and Microsoft being the good actor is indicative of how badly he messed up.
If his goal was to make a statement about big corporations taking more than they give to FOSS, arranging things so Microsoft gets to be the hero was a foolish way to go about it.
I have a feeling bare metal servers, a leased spot in a cage, and self hosted systems is about to become popular. There are just too many stories like this these days.
I’m in the camp that if it was his repo then he can do whatever the eff he wants to it.
Yeah, but most vocal proponents of so-called "individuality" are simply self-centered anti-social assholes who haven't thought through the Libertarian ideologies they parrot deeply enough to realize how extremely dependent on and beneficial from collectivism they actually are, and they continue bitching about "socialism" while sucking the government's tit with their social security and disability benefits and medicare, and driving on the roads in their trucks while "rolling goal" and waving their guns at pedestrians and bicyclists and electric cars, and calling the fire department when their house catches on fire, and calling an ambulance when they accidentally shoot themselves in the dick while "cleaning their gun", and foaming at the mouth and railing against Obamacare for no better reason than the person THEY renamed the ACA after is black, then refusing to self isolate and wear masks and take vaccines, and finally overcrowding the hospitals and cursing at health care workers when they get sick, then running GoFundMe campaigns to pay for their "unexpected" self inflicted illness and funeral, and some even go as far as using projects hosted on github and hosting their own projects on github for free, and then complaining when github takes down the malicious repo of another mentally ill person whose apartment the police had to break into and remove his bomb making supplies.
If you are going to insult people at least get the terminology correct, it is rolling coal, not goal.
Further most people rolling coal are not libertarian.
>>d "individuality" are simply self-centered anti-social assholes who haven't thought through the Libertarian ideologies they parrot deeply enough to realize how extremely dependent on and beneficial from collectivism they actually are
Incorrect, Libertarians / Individualists do not reject the concept of society or working in groups to accomplish a goal. However they believe said interactions should be VOLUNTARY, and not forced upon you by 3rd party actors.
>>against Obamacare for no better reason than the person THEY renamed the ACA after is black,
Ohh yes, the only possible reasons someone could oppose ACA is because of racism.
Lord forbid I make a typo. But of course you knew exactly what I meant, and despite your attempt to disown that behavior, those people now OWN your precious Libertarian party just as much as they now OWN the Republican party. When your leaders are kissing Trump's ring, and you refuse to renounce and continue to follow those same leaders, you're kissing Trump's ring, too.
Do you support with the way your glorious Libertarian leader Rand Paul has attacked and endangered Anthony Fauci's family by lying about him, and reject the government's right to mandate vaccination, but support spreading lies about people and endangering their families for political purposes? What ever happened to personal responsibility?
>How politically helpful have Rand Paul’s attacks on Anthony Fauci been?
>One of the more remarkable political disputes in recent history involves two doctors.
>One is Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), an ophthalmologist by training. The other is Anthony S. Fauci, the federal government’s top infectious-disease expert. The genesis of their fight is the coronavirus pandemic and, specifically, government recommendations (for which Fauci is a figurehead) that Paul opposes. Over the course of more than a half-dozen hearings centered on the pandemic, the fight has become much more personal, with Paul accusing Fauci of having contributed to the creation of the virus and Fauci forcefully pushing back.
>On Tuesday, there was a new escalation. Obviously expecting Paul to challenge him, Fauci came prepared with an argument he hadn’t made previously: Paul was attacking him and putting his personal safety at risk for Paul’s own political benefit.
>Fauci pointed out that a man had been arrested while on his way to Washington to attack a number of public officials, including himself.
>“I ask myself, why would senator want to do this,” he continued, obviously flustered. “So, go to Rand Paul website, and you see ‘Fire Dr. Fauci,’ with a little box that says ‘Contribute here’ — you can do $5, $10, $20, $100 — so you are making a catastrophic epidemic for your political gain.”
And of course there are possible reasons to oppose the ACA, but most of them don't hold any water because they are based on lies ("It's SOCIALISM!!!", "DEATH PANELS!!!"), and are just cover stories and dog whistles for naked racism. You know that as well as I do, so don't play coy and deny it.
>>those people now OWN your precious Libertarian party
I see you have confused the Libertarian party with libertarianism they are pretty different
>>Do you support with the way your glorious Libertarian leader Rand Paul has attacked and endangered Anthony Fauci's
Aside from the complete falsehood of this statement entirly, I do support elected officials grilling non-elected bureaucrats in the manner used by Rand.
I also believe Fauci unfit to serve in his current role and there are serious questions around his tenure that need to be addressed including the funding of the Wuhan lab.
And just to be clear: by "grilling" you mean lying about and endangering the families of non-elected bureaucrats for the purposes of political fundraising. You're exhibiting and defending precisely the behavior I mean when I say Libertarians are "self-centered anti-social assholes".
You are not pretty different yourself, since you believe and spread the same conspiracy theories, and support Rand Paul's attack of complete falsehoods against Fauci and his family. Rand Paul's statements were mendacious lies, yet you support him and his lies and threats against Fauci for the sole purpose of fundraising.
I'm glad you don't incorrectly disagree with the fact that most of the arguments proffered against ACA are just lies and racist dog whistles, but I certainly don't agree with you that it's a valid tactic, the ends justify the means, or that using racism and lies and threats and spreading misinformation against people's families to grab power and raise money is in any way ethical or justified, or a "great tactic" and that "misinformation works", as Rand Paul himself says.
>>I'm glad you don't incorrectly disagree with the fact that most of the arguments proffered against ACA
Just because I choose not to respond to all of our unhinged conspiracy laced non-sense claims that everything you disagree with is a dog whistle to racism does not in anyway imply I support said statements. '
I choose not argue with crazy people on the internet, and clearly President Trump broke your mind and I hope for your sake you get professional help.
>> since you believe and spread the same conspiracy theories,
Sorry information released from government records pursuant to a FOIA request is not "conspiracy", I am sure you so biased in favor of your lord and savior (Dr Fauci) that you probably have one of those candles or figurines on your desk devoted to him so you will never believe anything negative however reality does not require your faith.
He is mid rate bureaucrat thrust in the lime light by circumstance and this hero worship of him is insane.
Further at no point did Rand threaten him or his family. The attempt to shift any real or imaged danger there is due to public backlash is a very dangerous game, tell me do you apply the same standard to Democrats who inflame AntiFa and other violent groups? Are these democrat politics to blame for all the violence, riots, etc they "cause" (and to be clear I do not believe they cause it, but you world view dictates we place this violence at their feet, i am judging you by your own standard)
In no way do I "worship" Fauci. You're projecting your own hero worship of Trump onto me. You're the one who believes and spreads unfounded conspiracy theories, and whose mind Trump broke, if it was not already broken before. It's you foaming-at-the-mouth Trump-worshiping Fauci-haters who are the deranged ones injecting disinfectants, popping horse dewormer pills, and drinking your own urine, instead of wearing masks and getting vaccinated. Get a grip on reality and stop parroting lies and drinking Trump's piss flavored kool-aid. The rampant racism in the US and the fact that Trump exploits it is not a conspiracy, it's a historical fact that you can't deny. You fanatical Trump supporters are spreading ridiculous unfounded and totally disproven conspiracy theories that it was actually AntiFa who attacked the US Capitol to make Trump look bad, when we all know because we saw with our own eyes that they were racist Confederate Flag brandishing Trump supporters, egged on and organized by Trump himself. So do you also believe the election was stolen from Trump, too, like MOST Republicans do? Or do you just pretend to believe those lies and conspiracy theories as performance art trolling, the same way you go out of your way to purposefully mis-spell "democrat politics"? Then Popehat's Law of Goats applies:
>He who fucks goats, either as part of a performance or to troll those he deems has overly delicate sensibilities is simply, a goatfucker.
>He claimed he was just pretending to be racist to trigger the social justice warriors, but even if he is telling the truth, Popehat's Law of Goats still applies.
You are the only unhinged person here. I am having a calm conversation where you are ranting and raving... It is sad really
>>In no way do I "worship" Fauci.
Press X for doubt
>>You're projecting your own hero worship of Trump onto me.
Never voted for the man... I disagreed with him about 50% of the time, however I saw in real time the lies and misinformation the media was putting out.
>>It's you foaming-at-the-mouth Trump-worshiping Fauci-haters who are the deranged ones injecting disinfectants, popping horse dewormer pills, and drinking your own urine, instead of wearing masks and getting vaccinated.
Fully vaccinated, just do not support the mandates
//and for the record Trump also supports the Vaccines.. Much to the chagrin to part of his base
Also calling on of the most widely distributed human drugs, a drug that won accolades for saving peoples lives across the world a "horse dewormer" is unhinged conspiracy, and medical misinformation. Sure it may not be a treatment for COVID, that however does not change the reality that is a human drug, proscribed by doctors all over the world, and is infact on the WHO list of essential drugs...
>> disproven conspiracy theories that it was actually AntiFa who attacked the US Capitol
Where did I say that? There is clear evidence AntiFa violence all through out 2019, 2020, and 2021 with out having to talk about 1/6 protest turned riot.
>> So do you also believe the election was stolen from Trump, too, like MOST Republicans do?
Stolen in the sense you are talking about... No. However I do believe many states governors (on both sides) inappropriately (and IMO illegally) used their executive powers to change election laws under the guise of "emergency" to manipulate election turn out and other factors for their (or their parties) political advantage.
I also do not believe or support the narrative that voter ID is a threat to democracy, nor do I support or believe the narrative that the US has the most "secure" elections in the world.
>>Popehat's
Ahh yes... Ken White. another famous person broken by Trump. The one famed free speech advocate now fully supporting Censorship of all manner.
This is a divide that extends well beyond programming and this topic.
People that support GitHub actions believe in the concept of "greater good" and believe the actions of GitHub are ethical because it prevented harm to the community
People that oppose GitHub actions reject the idea of "the greater good" and believe this individual should have had the right to do with their property (i,e their code) anything they wanted and the responsibility was upon the people consuming / using that code to vet it before use.