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> how many lines of code was [Zope] before then?

Soooo many. Zope was a very formidable code base to delve into. I was trying to learn it because my company was using Plone, and Zope quickly surfaced through the abstractions.

Zope's codebase might have been more accessible if type annotations were a thing back then. Their implementation of "interfaces" for Python were very interesting back in the Python 2.3 days.

I disagree that Python is a "toy" language now. It started out as one, and has been stumbling awkwardly away from that ever since the mid 2000s - virtualenvs, pip, pyenv, pipenv/poetry, type annotations, mypy etc.

In my entirely unscientific opinion, I think it was Django that started this journey, then of course scikit, numpy leading into pandas etc.



Both NumPy and Django were created in 2005, but Numeric, the ancestor of NumPy, is nearly as old as Python itself, and predates SciPy.




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