>Can you address the point without reference to Trump?
No, because the point I was making was that both parties were equally self-serving, because they were both politicians running for political office, and making that point requires reference to the other party.
>If it helps, I think they both were self-serving, full stop.
Yes, that was literally my point.
>But. Whenever a criticism of Clinton hits the mark, a supporter invariably pops up talking about Trump.
Neither can one criticize Trump without his supporters deflecting with rants about Democrats, Hillary Clinton, BLM or whatever. Also, I'm not a Clinton supporter.
>So, to the point, she was not even implying that those who were on the fence about her were motivated by racism, sexism, Russian manipulation, etc?
Ok. Let me paste in the entirety of the quote, verbatim:
"You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters
into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? [Laughter/applause]. The racist,
sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are
people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that
used to only have 11,000 people, now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets offensive,
hateful, mean-spirited rhetoric. Now some of those folks, they are irredeemable,
but thankfully they are not America.
Now first, notice that Hillary admits that what she's saying is "grossly generalistic," so it would be a mistake to assume she's attempting to speak in precise terms - when she says "about half" here, she doesn't mean literally 50% within some margin of error, and she certainly isn't referring to the entirety of Trump supporters, much less the entirety of rural Americans (who are not all Trump supporters) nor the entirety of blue collar workers (also not Trump supporters.)
Continuing:
"But the other basket, the other basket, and I know because I see friends from all over
America here. I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas, as
well as you know New York and California. But that other basket of people who are people
who feel that government has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about
what happens to their lives and their futures, and they are just desperate for change.
Here, she's referring to the legitimate concerns and fears of Trump supporters, and further in, suggests that these Trump supporters - explicitly not the ones motivated by racism, sexis, etc - are the ones the Democrats need to empathize with, understand and reach:
It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says but
he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and
see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they're in a dead-end.
Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
So to finally address the points:
>she was not even implying that those who were on the fence about her were motivated by racism, sexism, Russian manipulation, etc?
No, she was not. She was implying that those people were not on the fence and would never vote for her to begin with.
>She acknowledged there could be principled reasons to disagree and not vote for her?
No she did not. Obviously no politician would ever do that, even if they believed it. She was arguing that the Democrats need to convince the subset of Trump supporters willing to listen that they have better solutions to their concerns than Trump.
Ok. You convinced me. Clinton's "basket of deplorables" comment was not transmitted charitably. A charitable reading can be criticized, but yes, she was not calling all Trump supporters deplorable
No, because the point I was making was that both parties were equally self-serving, because they were both politicians running for political office, and making that point requires reference to the other party.
>If it helps, I think they both were self-serving, full stop.
Yes, that was literally my point.
>But. Whenever a criticism of Clinton hits the mark, a supporter invariably pops up talking about Trump.
Neither can one criticize Trump without his supporters deflecting with rants about Democrats, Hillary Clinton, BLM or whatever. Also, I'm not a Clinton supporter.
>So, to the point, she was not even implying that those who were on the fence about her were motivated by racism, sexism, Russian manipulation, etc?
Ok. Let me paste in the entirety of the quote, verbatim:
Now first, notice that Hillary admits that what she's saying is "grossly generalistic," so it would be a mistake to assume she's attempting to speak in precise terms - when she says "about half" here, she doesn't mean literally 50% within some margin of error, and she certainly isn't referring to the entirety of Trump supporters, much less the entirety of rural Americans (who are not all Trump supporters) nor the entirety of blue collar workers (also not Trump supporters.)Continuing:
Here, she's referring to the legitimate concerns and fears of Trump supporters, and further in, suggests that these Trump supporters - explicitly not the ones motivated by racism, sexis, etc - are the ones the Democrats need to empathize with, understand and reach: So to finally address the points: No, she was not. She was implying that those people were not on the fence and would never vote for her to begin with. No she did not. Obviously no politician would ever do that, even if they believed it. She was arguing that the Democrats need to convince the subset of Trump supporters willing to listen that they have better solutions to their concerns than Trump.