That's exactly why so many companies are enacting "unlimited" policies.

What they do is say "It's unlimited, but if you take more than 4 weeks it has to be approved" or something and then that way they can cap you like they did before but also not pay you out if you leave because wink wink it's "unlimited".

This reminds me of "unlimited" cell phone plans where you can use as much data as you like, but at some point the data gets slower and slower.

Those plans are much better than plans that are strict cap and then no data, which are better than no limits but if you use more than your quota it costs a ton and by the way the usage information is delayed at least 7 days.

I do remember seeing the plans that said unlimited (tiny print slow after 30Gb) and that's misleading... better to put the 30gb in big letters, but I just want like 1 or 2 gb fast... Just switched to a hard capped plan cause it was half the price though and a higher cap and I haven't hit the cap in a long time.

I'm ok with that. I'm still on an old data plan that throttles me after I got the limit for high speed data. But they don't hide that limit or my usage, and it's really cheap.

I don't want to pay for unlimited data, and I don't want to lose data after hitting a cap.

Everyone is ok with being sold something that they understand, most people are not ok with being sold something that screams "UNLIMITED" and then uses fine print to limit your seemingly unlimited plan.

Maybe the plans you're describing could spin the feature as "throttled for your pleasure" or some such. I'm sure there are marketing people that can come up with a positive way to spin it that isn't a borderline falsehood.

If I throttle your car to 5mph, is the distance it travels unlimited?

Bandwidth is the same, if you set a speed limit, you are also setting a distance limit.

Skype iirc used to have an "unlimited" talk time capped at some ten thousand minutes as fair use.

I am pretty sure even today if you have a phone call on Google voice that goes over two hours or so, your call will drop. I like it better this way because I can call back immediately after being disconnected.

The difference is that they are very reasonably up-front about "first X GB at 4G speeds" where the PTO thing is going to have a shrowd of mysteries and unwritten limits.

Unless a union is involved, firms do not enact policies that make them less money. Unlimited PTO removes a liability.

If there are specific policies that demarcate how an employee uses PTO to the degree specified in this blog post, I would argue that the firm does not have "unlimited PTO" and in fact accrues a vacation balance.

Awaiting the class action in CA.

As just one example, a few years ago our company changed parental leave to 4 months from 6 weeks. Is that making them the same or more money?

I think companies do things like Unlimited PTO because although it may mean some people take more leave than before, other people take the same or less and there's no liability, so it may net out roughly the same but sounds better to new hires.

I don't think every company is extremely cynical as you're suggesting. As others here have mentioned, it depends where you work - we don't bat an eyelid if people are using 4-6 weeks plus holidays, in fact we check to make sure people are actually using their PTO.

Can you name this company? They sound like good people.

Yep as a business owner it's a great way to get out of paying PTO.

Sounds like this is just a lawsuit away from not being a thing anymore.

All the former employee would have to do is to illustrate that the 4 weeks was enshrined in policy somehow, then boom.

Some states don't require the payout and companies there will not unless posted like in the employee manual.

Some stats do and that is where this could be ducking worker rights.

Yep as a business owner it's a great way to get out of paying PTO.

These are all just the slow crawl of American businesses towards irrelevance.

> If you get 5 weeks PTO and never take any then leave after 2 years, I assume it gets paid out?

Even in this case, it depends where you live and sometimes what your contract says. California requires it, but most states don't.

Yep in California PTO and vacation get paid out. They can not do use it or lose it. They can cap how much of PTO and vacation you can have at one time. Sick time does not need to be paid out. The whole scam of unlimited PTO is so they do not have to pay out when you leave. Then can not roll over your PTO or vacation at the end of year but if they do that, they have you pay you out.

Seems pretty cynical. Isn’t this trick easily defeated by taking regular PTO instead of hoarding it?

Yes you never want to hit your cap. At some of my older jobs people would be like oh crap I gotta take two weeks off starting next week. I much rather have defined PTO. My last role and current role are "unlimited PTO" I take about 4-5 weeks off with out issue. But you are taking a risk for sure going to company with "unlimited PTO".

At a company I worked at in St. Louis I was pairing with the owner on the PTO system when we noticed I was at the cap that day... we were using my data as the test. He made me go home right then and there. We implemented the system emailing HR when people were nearing the cap so we could make sure people didn't work too much and lose vacation.

California companies and work culture largely discourages taking PTO, so it tends to accrue.

Really depends on the company and in big companies it depends on your team. My very first job out college had vacation and sick time. You could take your vacation at any time no questions asked. It was really nice but they paid less than everybody else. But the work life balance was much better. You saw a lot of people with families come and work there and take paycut. It was interesting seemed work well for them.

I can give a comparison to Germany. Here at least 25 days PTO a year are mandatory for each full time job. Anything below that is illegal, most companies offer around 30. Sick days don't count into that. Even if you're on a planned 2week vacation and get sick for three of those days, those three days can't be subtracted from your annual PTO days. You have to get a confirmation document from your doctor though, which is of course free. If you don't take your PTO, it will be transferred to the next year, but most companies try to avoid that. You can usually decide if you take those days within the first three months of the next year, or they have to pay you out. You are usually not free to choose when you take your PTO and it's normal to only take one or two weeks around holidays like Easter or Christmas and the rest for individual occasions.

> If your contract is for unlimited PTO and you never take any and leave after 2 years, what do you get?

In all the "unlimited PTO" jobs I've had, nothing.

nothing, that's part of the motivation for companies to offer it.

You get nothing because you've accrued nothing.

Yep, you figured it out. Preset PTO must be paid out (at least by CA laws), "unlimited PTO" pays bupkis if you don't use it. If the workforce routinely under-utilizes the PTO (which is easily achieved both culturally and managerially) the whole scam is pretty clear.

Nothing. That's why they don't have to keep it on their books.

It depends on if your company capped how much you could accrue. However much you accrued should be paid out.

Nothing.