Apple computers have always been slower and more expensive than their non-Apple counterparts, and this gap has been larger recently due to sourcing from the struggling CPU vendor and the struggling GPU vendor. Worse, the software adds a 30% performance penalty on top.
Which is why I provided a link to show it. Whenever I see IntelliJ IDEs on Macs, they seem so sluggish, and the benchmarks in that link show that Java2D is several times slower on MacOS on the same hardware.
iOS is even worse, taking vastly superior hardware and still managing to perform worse on standard productivity tasks.
The post doesn’t substantiate the claim: “The software adds a 30% performance penalty on top”. It shows performance on an extremely narrow test which clearly doesn’t represent general performance.
As to your claim about iOS. There is literally nothing to substantiate it.
> The post doesn’t substantiate the claim: “The software adds a 30% performance penalty on top”.
From the link I posted: "Ubuntu 19.10 meanwhile had a 29.5% advantage over Apple macOS..."
Ubuntu 20.04 is faster still on that set of benchmarks, and ClearLinux has a 10% performance increase on top of that.
>It shows performance on an extremely narrow test.
No, it includes a very broad range of tests. I just highlighted one of them, on which MacOS performs particularly poorly and which affects software a lot of us use.
> As to your claims about iOS. There is literally nothing to substantiate it.
I gave you three links to substantiate it. It also matches my own experience.
These technologies are long deprecated on Apple platforms.
It’s completely unrepresentative. But sure, if you rely primarily on Java or OpenGL for your workloads, I agree that a Mac isn’t the right choice for you.
It’s a lie to say “The software adds a 30% performance penalty on top” based on these results. It doesn’t.
If you have something credible to link to about iOS performance being slower, I’m interested, but I’m not going waste time watching YouTube videos that nobody else is going to bother with.
If it’s that bad, you’ll be able to find some credible analysis in writing. I’m guessing you can’t.
> These technologies are long deprecated on Apple platforms.
This doesn't matter to the user, who is still using apps like IntelliJ IDEs. To the end user, this is a problem with MacOS, which does not allow GPU vendors to update their OpenGL drivers. Meanwhile, Ubuntu has far superior OpenGL performance and superior Vulkan performance on the same hardware.
> It’s a lie to say “The software adds a 30% performance penalty on top” based on these results.
You keep saying that, but you haven't explained why. MacOS is also twice as slow on git operations according to the benchmarks. Java2D and git are software that people use that are multiple times slower (not merely 30%) on the same hardware.
> I’m not going to watch YouTube videos.
Then I'll post text summarizing them. Android on midtier previous generation phones launches apps to interactivity faster than iOS running on latest generation hardware, and this has been the case for about ten years now. There are hundreds of videos on YouTube substantiating that.
Edit to respond to below comment due to rate limiting:
> YouTube videos, however many, are not a credible source of operating system performance claims. You can find YouTube videos supporting flat earth theories or that Obama is a lizard alien.
The YouTube videos doen't say that Android is faster. They show that Android is faster. You seem to not understand the difference between people claiming things are true and people showing things are true.
It's the same with the 30%. I showed a suite of benchmarks where MacOS is 30% slower on average. It was many times slower on a few specific benchmarks I called out.
> If you are a heavy Java or OpenGL user, don’t by a Mac.
I'm glad we can agree on that. You forgot heavy git users.
Edit 2:
> It creates a dishonest impression of the thread.
How does replying with edits create a dishonest impression of the thread when I very clearly indicate which comment I am replying to? If you would like to respond normally, there is a very easy way to enable that. Simply upvote my comments to disable the rate limiting.
If you are a heavy Java or OpenGL user, don’t buy a Mac.
If you are running a git server farm, don’t use macs. If you are a developer using Git, you’ll be just fine.
These just aren’t representative of most people’s experience.
It’s a lie to say the software is 30% slower.
It’s even a lie to say it’s 30% slower for an IntelliJ user.
It’s only 30% slower on a narrow benchmark.
YouTube videos, however many, are not a credible source of operating system performance claims. You can find YouTube videos supporting flat earth theories or that Obama is a lizard alien.
If you can’t find any article anywhere substantiating your claim, I think we can conclude that it’s not supported by evidence.
If it was that bad, a reputable site like ars, or anandtech would have shown it.
I gave you a source. The sluggishness is something I notice when I use MacOS.
> If it was that bad, a reputable site like ars, or anandtech would have shown it.
It is that bad. Hundreds of YouTubers have shown it, and you can do it yourself to confirm. I have friends who have iPhones. The launch times are noticeably slower.
I'll even give you my speculation for why this is the case in order of impact:
1. Android's zygote based process initialization.
2. Developers optimizing for the $50 Android phones in the long tail.
There are a set of cold boot launch times which can be shown to be slower in a video, but this is not a metric of software performance nor does it impact users.
You’ve attempted to use a set of YouTube videos to justify a false statement.
As I have said before - if iOS was slower than Android you’d be able to find a reputable source to show it through analysis, not some staged YouTube videos looking for clicks.
I showed you that it is, and you keep saying that it isn't. I even gave you some examples that are more than 100% slower.
> There are a set of cold boot launch times which can be shown to be slower in a video
That's what I said they were. You kept not believing me even though I showed proof. Now you say that it doesn't matter. It is in fact the biggest thing that matters for productivity apps, aside from UX, where Android wins by a bigger margin due to smart replies and other actions in notifications.
> You’ve attempted to use a set of YouTube videos to justify a false statement.
You keep saying that, but you've just agreed in this comment that my statement was wholly correct.
What you said is this: “Apple computers have always been slower and more expensive than their non-Apple counterparts, and this gap has been larger recently due to sourcing from the struggling CPU vendor and the struggling GPU vendor. Worse, the software adds a 30% performance penalty on top.”
This is a false statement. The YouTube videos do not change that.
Moving the goalposts to “the most important thing for productivity apps”, doesn’t change the original statement.
Taking aside the moved goalposts, even your new statement is false. Cold boot time for productivity apps is not the most important thing for productivity apps, since cold starting a regularly used app is rare.
The fact that you know these videos only show a rarely occurring situation, shows that you know you were lying when you made the original statement: “Worse, the software adds a 30% performance penalty on top”.
Also I said: “There are a set of cold boot launch times which can be shown to be slower in a video”
To which you said: “That's what I said they were.”
If this is true, you’ll be able to link to the comment where you said you were talking about cold boot launch times that precedes mine.
The pattern here is that you make a general statement which is completely false as written, and then attempt to change the goalposts and justify a much narrower statement that doesn’t actually support what you originally said.
> This is a false statement. The YouTube videos do not change that.
I never said they did. Can you not read? How many straw men do I have to burn down to have a discussion with you? The substantiation comes from an article with benchmark results.
> Moving the goalposts to “the most important thing for productivity apps”, doesn’t change the original statement.
I made two separate claims: one that MacOS is slow and one that iOS is slow. There are two separate goal posts that I put up, and neither one has moved. It's like I'm arguing with a post.
> If this is true, you’ll be able to link to the comment where you said you were talking about cold boot launch times that precedes mine.
I said it is faster at launching apps to interactivity. This is for cold boot and not. The apps launched after the first in each video are long after cold boot.
Your reading ability is so low that it is useless to carry on a discussion with you. No wonder you use Apple products. You're the rube who actually believes Apple's marketing.
> I made two separate claims: one that MacOS is slow and one that iOS is slow.
No. That’s a new statement you are making now.
You made this claim:
“The software adds a 30% performance penalty on top.”
Which is false, regardless of which platform you are talking about, and not supported by the links you shared, which in both cases were corner cases that cannot support a general claim like this.
As I have said before, if this claim were true, you’d be able to find a reputable source, e.g. Ars or Anandtech.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=macos101...
Their phones were slower at productivity tasks than midtier phones from the previous generation for many years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emPiTZHdP88
https://youtu.be/hPhkPXVxISY
https://youtu.be/B5ZT9z9Bt4M
I agree that Samsung's phones are also overpriced.