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This strikes me as wishful thinking and also incredibly myopic about the realities facing many startups.

A startup that recently closed a big round (and the need to close the round wasn’t necessitated by massive debt or existing expenses — so think almost all of the money can be used as future runway) might be in a better short-term position than a business that is relying on net-30 or net-90 payments from clients that might not come and that will struggle gaining new revenue needed to pay bills. This is especially true if the startup can pause or slow-down hiring for now to extend the runway — but that’s a short-term advantage.

Longer term, there is absolutely nothing inherent to being a “startup” that will make it any better at weathering the future than any other type of business. And when investments come back — and it could take years, we just don’t know at this point the extent of the economic situation — it is the biggest/best-connected that will benefit. Plenty of startups won’t ever be able to raise that future round. Plus, they get the additional disadvantage of trying to figure out an actual business model during a recession. At least existing businesses — even if they don’t survive — had a working business plan in place first.

> I've got friends in manufacturing, hospitality, services, and so on that will not return to work because their businesses are going to or have already failed, for good. That's the fucking terrifying thing happening right now and it's more deserving of attention than us tech bros.

This is the only part I agree with. I don’t want to see any business fold — but I’m much more concerned about people who aren’t venture-backed founders right now.



> I’m much more concerned about people who aren’t venture-backed founders right now.

I'm sure most bootstrapped founders are ecstatic that their competitors who have been dumping product at below cost for years are now mostly going out of business. Not seeing much complaining on Indie Hackers.


The tone on IH seems almost.. surreally unconcerned about all this.


> And when investments come back — and it could take years, we just don’t know at this point the extent of the economic situation

Given unlimited QE and huge rounds of fiscal stimulus, the financial markets in major developed countries with debts denominated in their own currency are unlikely to suffer for too long.

Once there is a glimmer of hope that Covid-19 will likely be contained or its effects significantly mitigated, the flood of funds seeking yield should start to pour into discounted assets and other investments with good risk-reward ratio.

Looking at Germany and South Korea, mitigation through concerted efforts should be possible within a year or less. Pessimistically, if containment and mitigation fail, the population will have herd immunity by 1.5-2 years.


> Longer term, there is absolutely nothing inherent to being a “startup” that will make it any better at weathering the future than any other type of business.

I think the assumption is that "longer term" is "within your runway" for some set of startups. Early stage startups can have years of runway.

If you're a startup that's recently closed an amount that will carry you through this period I think you're probably in the ideal position. There is an open and obvious question as to how long that may be, but if you have multiple years of runway it feels safe.


> Plus, they get the additional disadvantage of trying to figure out an actual business model during a recession.

this has a bit of a silver lining: it'll help filter out bullshit business models that appear to work in the times of plenty.


It will also filter out sound business models that actually do work in times of plenty, but don't under the conditions of a pandemic.


That's far from a sound business model.


I'm not sure I buy this. 80-90% revenue declines across many industries is unprecedented. Especially in cases where poor operations didn't impact the business. Businesses like Hilton or Disney that have operated for 100 years may go bankrupt (not out of business) before this is all over.


Hilton may go bankrupt but Disney won't, they've been quite successful at diversifying their portfolio and I'm sure their streaming service is doing quite well. They recently announced that at least one of their upcoming movies will skip theatres and go directly to their streaming service, while others theatrical releases are being pushed back.

This allows certain parts of their business empire to fund the less performant ones e.g. adventure parks. Hilton has no such option, they're quite invested in the hospitality industry which leaves very little room for pivoting.


And they will simply continue after the bankruptcy


Yes, I mentioned this. I’m just saying that a large drop in revenue right now doesn’t necessary correlate with a product that people generally want or is useful.


Working 99 out of every 100 years is quite sound.


No, about every 8 years we see contractions.


Right but they didn't result in Hilton / Disney having 80-90% revenue drops overnight. This is a very unique contraction. Even in the depths of 2008, DisneyWorld still had a steady flow of visitors, and Hilton hotels across the world still welcomed guests.


This is rather worse than your typical 8-year contraction. Like, experts aren't sure if it's going to be better or worse than the Great Depression and they're not optimistic based on what we've seen so far levels of bad.


For example restaurants and cafes and gyms


Most business models also don't work if the world plunges into global thermonuclear war, but we still consider them to be sound.


Yep, if your startup plan has a good chunk of the budget dedicated to "how does the business survive global thermonuclear war" you are wasting money, time and focus.


Hotels. Parking. Restaurants. Not sound?


If a business model works based on current conditions, how is that "bullshit"?


When it is based on multiple external funding rounds to remain cash positive while aiming at profitability in the future.


>nothing inherent to being a “startup” that will make it any better at weathering the future

I can think of a few things:

a) expecting no revenue for a while anyway

b) mostly can work from home / remote

c) early startups can cut back to a few founders on ramen

None of that really applies to mom and pop restaurants / retail etc.


Assuming a "tech startup". d) Little to no costs with many-month wind-down period. A lease contract for a restaurant or shop might be 1-2 years, and one is still on the hook for that despite 0 income due to closed shop.


I think both your and the parent's perspectives are correct for different startups.

I don't think life is going to change much for pre-revenue startups still trying to find a market fit. Now, they're back to square one working out if they've got a product that can be sold somewhere.. anywhere! Uncertainty continues as usual.

But if a startup had a fit and were marketing for growth, well.. sucks to be them, unless they were in some kind of remote-collab space.


Remote work solutions should be doing just for now. Logistics would be another field, e-commerce as well.


Comparing startups against small/mid-sized businesses is like comparing a lion cub against a house cat. People see them as the same when they look like they are equal, then their paths quickly diverge when/if growth kicks in.

Many, many businesses are suffering in some way, and startups are not impervious to it either - a major question is who is able to suffer through this longer in order to come out the other side alive. The advantage of startups here is that they have more direct “supply lines” to capital to “hold out through the winter” whereas businesses relying on government help and bank loans are not in as good of shape to survive when depending on indirect third-party capital.

Long-term, this sucks the most for non-venture backed companies if they can’t hold out and die, or make it through and are hampered with debt so much that they are handicapped from returning to normal for quite some time. Conversely, I think this is where investors and venture-backed startups will see an opportunity to thrive because they could easily “sink the damaged ships” and corner markets in a new wave of cheap M&A deals and market share growth.


No, it's not myopic.

Startups lose money, which means they are usually raising capital for runway, and can conserve as well.

Moreover, many startups don't have working capital requirements, retail rents, inventory etc..

Finally, a lot of products are digital and some booming.

So it's fair to say many startups have an advantage.


It's myopic because the commenter is usi g their own circumstantes (i.e. anectodal evidence) to make a broad statement that startups are fine right now. Great for OP that their circle of friends at startups are unaffected but it is indeed myopic to extrapolate that to the entire startup scene being fine.




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