Yes #1 is that this is mostly Drifting techniques, which are mostly for show/style competition. The tyre slip angles mentioned are around 40deg, far past the optimal level of grip.
Yes #2 Racing techniques are more explicitly seeking to optimize for maximum grip, often found around 3 to 6 degree slip angles (depending on tyres, tyre pressure, tread & road temps, road cleanliness, dryness, etc.).
Both still are in the ranges of tyre slippage, at the edges of control, and burn tyres at crazy rates vs street use (drifting just insanely so).
Moreover, as someone with race training & experience, I can say that anyone doing full race/drift techniques on the streets as an ordinary practice is a real a*hole & a hazard.
BUT, all that said, it is absolutely critical to have thise techniques in your bag of tricks, available to use when something exceptional happens. In those rare-ish events, being able to use the full performance envelope of the vehicle is a real life saver, both for you and the others nearby.
So, for sure not every day, but these guys are absolutely right about the need to work on the full dynamic range of the performance spectrum.
> BUT, all that said, it is absolutely critical to have thise techniques in your bag of tricks, available to use when something exceptional happens. In those rare-ish events, being able to use the full performance envelope of the vehicle is a real life saver, both for you and the others nearby.
are you referring to during a road race, or ordinary driving on ordinary streets? It would be great if you could try to provide evidence for the latter. I've never heard of accidents being avoided on highways because someone knew how to do racecar drifting. My own 30 years of driving experience would suggest that not tailgating, keeping a safe distance from the other cars, and being alert for those occasional race-car-wannabes whipping in between everyone, invariably always driving BMWs, is likely to be statistically much more effective.
Just to clarify here, I'm talking about driving on the edge of available grip, NOT the wholesale sideways drifting tech - that is mostly for show.
Of course, in road racing, these skills are critical multiple times per lap.
On the street - there are still too many examples to list from direct personal experience.
Long trips, find myself in a severe snowstorm, or an ice storm where it's too slippery to even stand, cars off the road everywhere, I'm able to drive (w/ managed sliding) to make it through to destination or shelter just fine. Similarly, coming onto a muddy or oiled patch, same thing -- very handy to be able to both minimize the consequences of lost grip, or recover from a sliding situation without hitting anything.
Also the occasions where an obstacle is in the road by surprise behind a visual obstacle -car pulls out, parked in road behind corner, whatever, available space is closing -- being able to drive with precision at the limits of available grip makes the difference between a <whew - close one!> and a <mash the brakes, turn the wheel, bash into whatever> incident.
Obviously, alertness is key to everything (even w/ the best skills), and of course maintaining safe distances, etc. is also key, and the basis of any sound skill set.
Edit:, additional clarification, the traction controls in many modern cars also eliminates the option for many of the high-slip-angle moves. You'd have to turn of all thise features, or unplug the fuse, which is not possible on the timescale of an emergency maneuver.
great, knowing how to oversteer at low speeds in snow, of course we all need to know that and yes with my current Subaru it's hardly something that really happens anyway, the scariest thing that has happened with that car was a sudden whiteout where I had to cross down a hill that ended at a red light, for which cars weren't even able to stand still on said hill due to slipperyness. I basically plotted a course to what embankment I would use to break the movement in case I kept slipping but the Subaru was able to stop.
Overall I was curious if you were suggesting I'd need to go to racing school and learn drifting in order to keep my family safe. thanks for clarifying.
>> Overall I was curious if you were suggesting I'd need to go to racing school and learn drifting in order to keep my family safe. thanks for clarifying.
Excellent question
Absolutely need it? probably not. Many situations are like the tricky one you described, where picking the least-worst snowbank was probably your best move. That said, only chance will tell if anything more hairy comes up (the thing that wigs me out most is dashcams of things coming in from the oncoming lane -- gotta be really alert, quick, and dynamic to survive).
Highly recommended? Absolutely!
I cannot recommend enough going to some classes that are typically called Car Control Clinics, and are often offered by the local SCCA (Sports Car Club of America), BMWCCA (BMW Car Club of America), and others.
IMO, these should be obligatory for all new drivers. They cover the general principles of the limits of grip, and how to manage the car at the limits, and how to drive more precisely both at ordinary speed and in quick situations (e.g., sudden-lane-change drill), how to keep the car balanced in maneuvers, how to get the most out of brakes, steering, etc. I took my mom to one once, and she had decades of experience in snowy climates, and she learned a huge amount and had a ton of fun - started out timid and was smokin' the brakes by the end of the drills! A great investment of a day and entry fee to cover the site, and a lot of fun.
If you want to move up into track day classes, autocross, and road racing - you'll learn all kinds of hings you never knew existed (true for me even w/top-level experience in other speed sports) and have the most fun you cna have with your trousers on
Please ping me if I can help you find options in your area.
He was on the way home from something in the winter with a sedan fully loaded with his friends, when a semi truck in the leftmost lane of a three-lane highway lost control of the trailer and it went sideways across traffic. He was in the rightmost lane and avoided crashing into the semi trailer by sliding his car into the concrete barrier and driving sideways on it, thus evading the semi trailer and saving him and his closest friends from what would've been serious injury and possible fatalities.
Driving sideways on walls is not good for vehicles- that stunt totaled the vehicle- every single body panel was damaged, the wheel rims were all toast, and the vehicle's frame and structure was not in good shape afterwards- but it did deposit its passengers on the other side of the trailer in one piece.
If my dad hadn't broken the rules he did- driving in the shoulder, driving with two wheels on the ground, pulling a handbrake on the highway, and excessively accelerating, he would likely not be around today.
Once when I was driving, I took a left-hand (cross-traffic) turn and a vehicle in the oncoming lane decided to speed up instead of slow down. If I hadn't stomped the accelerator pedal and burnt rubber, I would've had my first accident on my second day on the road.
This isn't to say that most of the stuff that people do is good, or smart- but performance envelopes of vehicles- how fast you can go from 0-60, 60-GTFO, and whatever speed you're going to dead stop matter quite a bit- not for normal driving, but for when it isn't normal anymore.
Speaking of which, my dad also once chased a driver who rear-ended someone and sped off to get his license plate number before he could escape- he hit about 120mph chasing the person across traffic long enough to memorize their plate number and make/model.
Yes #1 is that this is mostly Drifting techniques, which are mostly for show/style competition. The tyre slip angles mentioned are around 40deg, far past the optimal level of grip.
Yes #2 Racing techniques are more explicitly seeking to optimize for maximum grip, often found around 3 to 6 degree slip angles (depending on tyres, tyre pressure, tread & road temps, road cleanliness, dryness, etc.).
Both still are in the ranges of tyre slippage, at the edges of control, and burn tyres at crazy rates vs street use (drifting just insanely so).
Moreover, as someone with race training & experience, I can say that anyone doing full race/drift techniques on the streets as an ordinary practice is a real a*hole & a hazard.
BUT, all that said, it is absolutely critical to have thise techniques in your bag of tricks, available to use when something exceptional happens. In those rare-ish events, being able to use the full performance envelope of the vehicle is a real life saver, both for you and the others nearby.
So, for sure not every day, but these guys are absolutely right about the need to work on the full dynamic range of the performance spectrum.