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If my nice car tomorrow comes with a free driver, why would I be less likely to buy/own/use one?

Ridesharing is a greenwash smokescreen for an industry that predicts yearly driven miles to go up by 300%.



Conversely, I don't know why people still buy cars in urban areas. Rural, I get. But I've lived in cities all my adult life, and I don't even have a drivers license. It feels like a waste of time, and owning a car feels like a pointless waste of money. Why would I pay to have a car that I need to worry about, including thinking about where it happens to be located when I want a car.

I like being able to open up Citymapper, tell it where I want to go, and now they've started not just suggesting Uber and others for the whole ride as an alternative to public transport, but suggesting it for parts of the way. A car you own can't compete with taking you to a train station and picking you up on the other side.

Today it takes ~3 minutes on average to get a car to the front of my house. That's with human drivers, spaced out inefficiently. Get driverless, and you can get a mix of ride shares and individual cars based on spacing out cars based on predicted demand and picking the most efficient solution based on customer preferences with very low wait times at even lower cost.

Owning a car just can't compete in my eyes. Maybe that's shaped by living in European cities where driving long distances almost never competes favorably with mixing and matching with trains and underground (a typical commute for me in the days I used to commute in to central London would have taken twice as long with car, and maybe ~30% less if a car/rideshare service could guarantee to be here in 3-4 minutes instead of waiting for the bus or walking to the train station; with apps suggesting the best route I'd still take the bus when the wait is low, but know I could start my journey later because I'd have a shorter maximum wait)

EDIT: Even more so because parking restrictions are getting stricter and stricter. The London borough where I live won't even entertain planning applications for housing if it includes more than 1.5 parking space per unit. That's expected to drop further as density increases - note that this is not permits for the road etc., but applies whether or not you build your own off street parking. The reason is that restricting parking is seen as a way of discouraging car ownership to reduce demand on surrounding road infrastructure.


I was 100% with you until I got a kid. And then a second one. With car seats, baby carriages, spare diapers, towels, tissues etc etc the value of having a car always packed with "your stuff" goes up a lot.


Many families still manage fine. My siblings an me were raised without a car and since then the availability of public transport and things like cargo bikes has only improved.


Certainly you can manage fine. And it gets easier when the kids get older and are more independent.

But if you can afford a car, it's still a big help. So families will keep buying cars. I'm just trying to explain GPs "I don't understand why people buy cars", not saying that it's a requirement.


Even without kids, I find having a vehicle with "my stuff" in it to be invaluable. It's also handy when I need to haul something, or if I want to go somewhere not readily serviced by public transit (which is, you know, the vast majority of even California, let alone the United States); sure, I can rent a car or truck or whatever for those occasions, but it only takes a few instances of that to become less costly than just buying a used car.


It did get harder when I got a kid, but I took him on the bus and in taxis just fine from he was a baby. It was a pain for a bit, but not enough to make me want a car.


I'd recommend getting a drivers license anyway. It opens up some opportunities + will come in handy if, at some point, you decide to move to more rural areas.

Having lived almost my entire life in 1M city, I don't have one either, but I recently moved to a ~15k city and this is forcing me to finally get that license.


If vidarh manages another 5-10 years without getting a license it may be a moot point.


Oh puh-leeze. 1970s called, they want their flying cars back. And the Moon colonies and strong AI. (Spoiler: jam yesterday and jam tomorrow, but never any jam today)


I grew up in a ~25k town and public transport was still just fine. There are certainly places where it wouldn't be, and of course big differences between how small you can go and get decent public transport depending on country etc. (e.g. my brother lives 20-30 minutes by car or probably twice that by bus outside that ~25k town, and if I lived there I might feel differently), but I just can't see myself willingly moving anywhere where it'd be a problem.


In the US, the urban/rural distinction isn't enough. It's more like NYC or SF/everywhere else. I'm in a very large city (Dallas), and my choices for commuting back and forth to work include busses and ride-sharing. Taking a bus means literally hours per day, and it would cost me more to take Lyft every day than it currently costs me to maintain my car, and I live extremely close to my office by Dallas standards (3.2 miles, 5.15 km).

It's possible the math would change if I both lived and worked within walking distance of a light-rail stop, but only a small percentage of residences or offices fall into that category, and neither my home nor my office are included.

It probably also helps that my car is paid for, so my monthly costs are only: insurance, fuel, 1/12th of my inspection and registration fees, and a few oil changes per year. Over a long enough time frame, I'd have to include whatever it will cost me to replace this car someday, but eventually the VC money underwriting Lyft is going to run out, so I'll take my chances.


Do you have children?


Yes, I do, and it still didn't change my mind,.


Your nice car is expensive and unused 90-95% of the time (if you're an average driver).

So, what are reasons not to own a car in the age of self-driving cars?

- it could be cheaper for a lot of people

- you'd be more flexible: use a small car to commute, a big car for shopping etc.

- there would be enough self-driving shared cars available so you never have to wait a long time to arrive

- it saves a lot of resources if less cars have to be built and their utilization is higher

- you can drive new cars as soon as they are added to the pool of shared cars

- you don't have to deal with car maintenance

- you are more likely to use your bicycle / ebike

Here are some reasons against using shared cars:

- mass surveillance - monitoring the movement of almost every citizen

- shared cars may not be as clean as your own

- can't store items in shared cars (baby seats!)

- favourite car may not be available all the time

- there may not be enough shared cars avaialble in your area, especially if you don't live in a city

- you have special requirements such as baby seats, 4WD or you want to drive a particular car model all the time

- prestige


You left three out:

- Being able to get where you need to go without requesting a ride. - Your own car will wait with infinite patience. - Kids


> - Being able to get where you need to go without requesting a ride.

If your car has parked far away from your location you need to "request" it just like a shared car.

> - Your own car will wait with infinite patience.

That could be useful every now and then. But not very important on my list if the waiting time is small enough.

> - Kids

I mentioned baby seats. But the availability of shared cars could mean that you can drop off multiple kids at multiple locations using multiple cars all at once.


> If your car has parked far away from your location you need to "request" it just like a shared car.

Sure, but you'd be the only one requesting it, as opposed to a bunch of other people requesting it, too.


To begin with, this may be true. But then people will think, why am I spending all this capital buying and keeping my own device when I could use a service when I need.


Which is why taxis have all but replaced private car ownership in big cities.


Citation desprtely needed.


It's sarcasm because that clearly hasn't happened even though taxis are car rides as a service.


Because your overall cost will be lower if you just pay for what you use, and it is more convenient to not own it.

If you need it for a daily drive (in a low demand route) buying it is probably cheaper, if not, just pay per use.


Everything seems to be going towards "As a service".

People who used to buy DVDs now use Netflix. Companies who used to buy serves use AWS.


It's ironic that the "land of the free" is spearheading this change. While renting is justified in some cases, each thing you rent instead of owning means signing a contract to abide by, which severely limits what you can do with an item, and means you have yet another party you're beholden to that you have to keep track of.

For people without a hired person to manage all these subscriptions, I wonder just how cognitively-taxing a rent/subscribe-everything lifestyle would be.


Maintaining your property is often much more cognitively taxing. Consider a car, for example: you have to keep track of oil changes, water, tires, brakes, taxes, insurance, and the list goes on, each with its own schedule.


Which is why I like my own car, I know it has been maintained to the higuest standard. Many ubers are downright frightening to anyone who knows anything about cars, and taxis seldom better.


> Consider a car, for example: you have to keep track of oil changes, water, tires, brakes, taxes, insurance, and the list goes on, each with its own schedule.

Not sure where you're from, but for me and my two vehicles, it's not really that big of a deal.

* Oil - look at sticker on windshield (when I change my own oil, I just erase the sticker and write it myself)

* Water - look in the radiator every once in a while; low? Add some coolant (never plain water!)

* Tires - look at them every now and again; need air? - add air, tread look too worn? - buy new ones, hear a clicking while driving? stop, and look for rock or nail

* Brakes - look and feel, listen for squeaking; if it squeaks, probably hitting the indicator strip - change 'em out. If feeling spongy, flush and refill fluid; pull the tires off (during a rotation) and look at 'em. Rear drums if you have 'em - common on trucks - only need to be checked occasionally - they rarely need to be replaced often unless you haul loads regularly

* Taxes - what taxes? I buy used, pay with cash - anything else, you're getting ripped off

* Insurance - get the bill, pay the bill

I do as much maintenance as I can myself, otherwise if I think it needs to go into the shop - into the shop it goes. Having two vehicles means I don't have to worry about if one is in the shop. Sometimes I've swapped - one car in the shop, get it back, swap the other one in (usually for things I can't handle - things that need a lift or are beyond my skill or tool level). About the only other thing I have to worry about is timing belts, but that's only on one vehicle now (my Jeep has a chain, I'll hear the noise once it wears beyond a certain point - the 4.0 I6 is near indestructible anyhow), and I got it changed when I purchased it, so it's good for 60k, at which point I'll probably need a complete engine overhaul anyhow (given the age of the vehicle - 1999 Isuzu VehiCROSS).

I love both of my vehicles, and I can't yet get anything in a hybrid or electric that compares (nor could I afford it, even if it did exist). I sincerely hope that battery tech gains to the point where a charge will get you 600-800 miles (because once you put that tech into a 4wd vehicle, with a lift and 30+ inch tires - that number will drop like a rock). But it ain't there yet, and even when it does happen, I won't be able to afford v1.0 - so I'm sticking with my current vehicles.

Plus - I'm hoping my VehiCROSS becomes a collectible; it has all the categories of one, but for some reason, it hasn't quite happened yet. I love driving that beast, tho...


People used to rent movies before Netflix (and before DVDs, for that matter). The big win with Netflix was that there was no due date to a Netflix rental, rather than having to rent by the day. (Plus, done by mail, and a bigger catalog than your neighborhood video store.)


I think new technologies are lowering the cost of offering things "as a service" together with ownership becoming costlier.

Owning some things do make sense though

https://www.marketplace.org/2017/08/15/business/one-vintage-...


Netflix is my DVD shelf as a service. I used to own lots of movies and series. Now they are all ripped and stored in hard drives, much like my music. I rarely buy new movies - I wait until they are on Netflix or Amazon and, if, for some reason (a 6 year old one, usually) I can't wait, I rent them from Apple.




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