I was banned today from a (nominally) professional forum. I was active there years ago and returned a few months back. Many years ago, I hooked up with one of the mods while I was going through a divorce. So far, so good.
But I didn't want to see him again after that. So he was an ass to me about it in a way that abused his position of power on the forum. I didn't make a stink. I left, mostly for other reasons, but that was kind of a final straw. My comment last night detailing his crappy behavior was deleted and my account was quietly banned. The ban was not announced publicly.
Women in business are frequently in a no win situation. If a man in power is attracted to them, win, lose, or draw, her career gets hurt and people will say she somehow screwed it up.
I have no control over men being attracted to me. I've been celibate for nearly 13.5 years. That has proven to be essentially zero protection from having to worry about drama because some man sees me as hot for some damn reason.
If a man is attracted in spite of my best efforts to be repulsive to him (yes, I'm being flippant here cuz I'm aggravated today), it is typically all downside for me. There isn't a good solution.
But I don't see where that is pertinent. If a tech guy had his homemade tech gadget mistaken for a bomb, would this be somehow deemed pertinent to his female boss sexually harassing him years later or something like that?
It is perfectly civil to make a lighthearted comment about the least sensitive part of the entire discussion. Frankly, who cares whether someone wears conservative clothes to Burning Man. I don't appreciate people who attempt to police others on how and when to discuss things; I think it lacks social grace.
You chose to respond to me with an unnecessary and totally irrelevant candid view into your professional life and sexual habits. To be completely honest, your comment struck me as bizarre and made me feel uncomfortable. I think that your comment on celibacy, etc, was a far more inappropriate thing to say (on your part) than simply pointing out the humor in Star's wardrobe having made the news more than once.
To address my views on the discussion directly:
I find it difficult to immediately and unquestioningly believe an allegation that doesn't appear to have evidence aside from testimony from a single individual, Star, who plainly admits that she was motivated to speak out due to the rising public profile of the accused. I believe that as a 24-year-old, Star Simpson was old enough to make her own adult decisions and even if what she says was true, it doesn't amount to sexual harassment but rather a rejected offer for a back rub and a consensual neck massage at a music festival. i don't know anything about DeVaul's other exploits, but even if Star's account is totally accurate, at the very worst his invitation was in poor taste considering that she was an interviewee.
How would a man feel if a male interview invited them to meet his wife and him, who are into polyamory or what not? I feel like the connotations are clear are inappropriate during an interview.
That question is not at all relevant to anything I have said in this thread, nor do you and I know in detail what exactly was said in that interview.
If you're just randomly asking my opinion, then I would say that any person who goes to an interview and is treated unprofessionally can be expected to feel bad.
At the same time, I have been invited to socialize outside of work by people who have unusual/unhealthy hobbies. It doesn't always mean they want me to join in those hobbies, and if I were pressured to do so, I would decline.
It's tough to draw conclusions about something when the only information we have is two paragraphs about one side of the story, and one sentence about the other side.
I don't appreciate people who attempt to police others on how and when to discuss things; I think it lacks social grace.
I was in no way trying to police anything. I was merely trying to convey that context impacts interpretation of a remark. Lighthearted humor amidst such a serious discussion comes across as disrespectful and dismissive, even mocking.
Given your above comment on the matter, it seems it is not inaccurate to see the comment that way. In fact, that likely is a wholly accurate interpretation of your intent. Someone was sexually harassed and your reaction is to point and laugh, basically.
I didn't dismiss, disrespect, or mock anything. I didn't even draw any conclusions. I simply pointed out something that happened in the past. Please don't go off the deep end trying to put words in my mouth.
The truth of the matter is that for anyone who was at MIT at that time, it was a big news story. It was the junction of hacker culture and normal culture, and hacker culture almost got shot and killed for no reason. Seeing a conversation about her that doesn't mention this major story, to me, was like seeing the Michelin Man run for president and nobody mentions that he used to sell tires. It's just naturally funny to me because the most salient thing I know about Star is that she went to Logan with a lighted breadboard affixed to her chest and play-doh in her hand, and the next time she shows up in my news feed she's dressed for a business meeting at Burning Man.
Maybe you can step off your soap box to see the humor in that. Maybe not.
Just because you want to assume that anyone who doesn't want to burn the accused at the stake is a bigot, doesn't mean it's true. I just saw the humor in something that, apparently, is off limits in your mind. Well, for me, until it's proven in court, it's just another allegation in a sea of allegations, and I have neither the evidence to accept one view or the other. I didn't attack anyone, say anything untrue, make accusations that I can't substantiate, or ridicule anyone's pain. I'm just here in the comments section chatting, and as far as I can tell my comments don't violate any of the guidelines of HN....
...Unless, of course, someone with the ability to read my mind can identify that what REALLY drove me to comment, deep down, was a desire to ridicule Star for allegedly being a victim.
Give me a break.
Are you able to see why decrying me as "pointing and laughing" at Star for making allegations of sexual harassment is a jump to a far-flung conclusion?
I didn't even mention the situation or share an opinion at first, and later I said that absent evidence I don't have an opinion. Do you have a problem with hearing voices that don't unequivocally agree with your ideas of what everyone ought (in your mind) to think?
The knee-jerk reaction in the tech culture is to assume that everything is malicious and anti-women. You're doing that right now by "interpreting" my "intent." You don't know my name, you don't know my background, and you're purporting to understand what drives me. I guess it's satisfying to set up a straw man just to knock it down.
If you were talking to me on the street and you were to randomly bring up your decade-plus of celibacy (not judging), I would be absolutely taken aback. But here on HN it appears to be totally normal and that strikes me as bizarre. That one singular comment is honestly making me rethink the value of this community, because there are some ideas that get traction in the echo chamber ("all people who do not immediately stone the accused share in his guilt"), yet basic civility and manners are often totally absent. I don't know if that's a result of liberal/feminist political biases, or a lack of social skills associated with tech types.
On another note:
With all due respect, I've responded to everything you've said, represented my view candidly, and attempted to share my thoughts in a coherent way, but I get the impression that to continue this discussion would serve little purpose for me but to expend my time talking to someone who has demonstrated a desire to misinterpret what I'm saying by injecting malice into it on my behalf. If this were a real-life conversation, the second you mentioned your sexual habits, I would have smiled politely and walked away shortly thereafter.
>A college student who walked into Logan International Airport wearing a fake bomb strapped to chest was arrested at gunpoint Friday, officials said.
CBS News correspondent Bob Orr reports the Massachusetts Institute of Technology sophomore told police she was there to meet a passenger arriving on a Continental flight from Oakland. She explained her get-up saying, "I wanted to stand out in the crowd."
>Star Simpson, 19, allegedly had a computer circuit board, wiring and a putty that later turned out to be Play-Doh in plain view over a black hooded sweatshirt she was wearing, said State Police Maj. Scott Pare, the commanding officer at the airport.
This happened on September 21, 2007. It surprises me that she didn't get shot on sight as it happened after 9/11. Crazy ... I mean, I don't want to say she was/is crazy, but no sane person does such a thing, especially not in this day and age.
At MIT there was a bit of controversy because many professors argued that the university president should have gone to bat for her publicly, instead of releasing a statement saying that she showed poor judgment.
Wearing weird electronics and hacker-esque things is totally normal for MIT undergrads, especially the ones living on the east side of Mass Ave. I wouldn't think twice if I saw a kid walk into the campus convenience store wearing a hoodie with LEDs on a breadboard and playdoh in her hands, but I guess Logan Airport isn't exactly a hackathon.
I was banned today from a (nominally) professional forum. I was active there years ago and returned a few months back. Many years ago, I hooked up with one of the mods while I was going through a divorce. So far, so good.
But I didn't want to see him again after that. So he was an ass to me about it in a way that abused his position of power on the forum. I didn't make a stink. I left, mostly for other reasons, but that was kind of a final straw. My comment last night detailing his crappy behavior was deleted and my account was quietly banned. The ban was not announced publicly.
Women in business are frequently in a no win situation. If a man in power is attracted to them, win, lose, or draw, her career gets hurt and people will say she somehow screwed it up.
I have no control over men being attracted to me. I've been celibate for nearly 13.5 years. That has proven to be essentially zero protection from having to worry about drama because some man sees me as hot for some damn reason.
If a man is attracted in spite of my best efforts to be repulsive to him (yes, I'm being flippant here cuz I'm aggravated today), it is typically all downside for me. There isn't a good solution.