In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from driving manual cars).
Automatic transmissions are therefore regarded as either boring, or for people who do not have the skills to drive a manual.
I drive a car with an automatic transmission and people always ask me why I'd drive a 'boring' car. Then I explain it is actually 'sporty' because it has paddle shifters (which I never use), and suddenly it becomes acceptable again.
I believe the main issue in Europe was due to torque converters being inefficient. With expensive gas and small engines, the performance hit is non-negligible. Nowadays you can get good robotized gearboxes that have almost none of the disadvantages, except for a slightly higher price. And given that most people drive manuals in an idiotic way, they can easily be more fuel efficient.
Yep, this was always the main argument against them when I was growing up.
Some of the older automatics were also hilariously bad, with clunky gear changes and noticeably long delay on kick down. Perhaps American drivers were more tolerant of this because they drive such long distances, so a relaxing drive was more important than an engaging one.
American automatic transmissions were historically much better than European ones. GM automatic transmission were used everywhere for a long time. I had a 2000 BMW 328Ci with a GM transmission.
Nowadays the ZF automatic transmission from Germany is one of the best around. Thankfully my Grand Cherokee has an 8 speed ZF instead of an unreliable Chrysler 5-speed.
I never owned a car and I don't ever plan on buying one new, but 6% doesn't seem that high given the added comfort.
Also I quickly checked, it seems that if you're willing to buy from dealerships' inventory, the sticker price is a moot point. Let's say you want a Golf 1.5 TSI (which is probably the most popular compact car over here in Switzerland), I find 14 of them with a manual transmission, and 96 with a DSG, and it seems trivial to find the exact same model for a similar price, or even cheaper.
"Nowadays you can get good robotized gearboxes that have almost none of the disadvantages, except for a slightly higher price."
1. These automatic transmissions are still the weak spot on most vechicles.
2. They still use clutch bands that wear. The trannies are anything but simple. Most mechanics farm out rebuilding a tranny. I would recon that a malfunctioning automatic transmission us the number one cause of junked vechicles, besides wrecked vechicles.
3. It's straight forward weekend job to replace a clutch.
4. We all know modern engines can put close to 300,000 miles on them. Manufacturers know it. There's a reason they only give 70-100k on the tranny.
5. A modern automatic transmission is not a simple fix. Even AMCO guys are learning on your dime (notice they won't just give a price for a complete rebuild over the phone? AMCO in San Rafael, CA. Yea, I remember you slick.)
6. When checking a used vechicle, check that tranny fluid. It should be pink as a baby's butt. (Even then--there's no guarantee. The seller could have just changed the fluid. It shouldn't be black, brown, or smell burnt.
7. Sorry about my tirate on automatic transmissions. I've been to Automotive school, and worked as a mechanic for two years. The Automatic Transmission always intimided me.
If anyone could come up with clutch bands that don't wear, well let's say, you could dine with the 1 percenters? Tyat that be hell though?
I think you might be getting downvoted for using an abbreviation for 'transmission' that also happens to be a homonym for a slur against transgender people. You've written a good, informative comment drawing on your specialist expertise, so it seems a shame to have it lose visibility. You might consider editing to change the word that could be upsetting some people.
To be upset you would have to take it out of the context its presented in, at which point its out of context. Seems like people are trying to be upset, shame on them.
In electronics/electrician-speak, "tranny" is also commonly used to refer to transformers, but I'd never confuse that meaning with the automotive one nor the gender one given the context.
I don't think older automatics are hard to work on (50s-70s era), but I agree that the modern electronic ones are horribly complex.
I agree that all cheap cars in the Netherlands are manual. Especially the under 10.000 euro small kind of car like a Hyundai i10, small Kia or similar.
But over the last few years the automatic has increased dramatically in popularity with the more serious brands like BMW and Audi. Not just in their top models, BMW has been selling an 8 speed automatic as standard even on the 1-series.
A big part of that is because modern automatic gearboxes are not slow and boring anymore. The dual-clutch type really made sales increase. And so does the increase in hybrid and electric cars which are very popular due to tax reasons and all of them are automatic.
The driving test is a choice. You don't need a medical reason, you can choose to do the test in an automatic (or hybrid / electric) car if you want to. But almost nobody does that, because you are indeed not allowed to drive a manual car after doing the test in an automatic.
In the UK you don't need a medical reason, you can simply choose to take an automatic test. But then of course you can only drive automatic cars, just like in the Netherlands.
Ironically I believe an American who has never driven a manual would be able to come here and rent one, because (please correct me if I'm wrong) their licences don't distinguish between the two.
I think manuals are slowly on the way out here as well, although they'll persist for a long time on cheaper cars, and a few sportier cars.
A friend's new (automatic) Audi has both faster 0-60 and higher MPG (and lower CO2 output) than the manual equivalent, so manual gearboxes are becoming more difficult to justify, even for petrolheads.
It's the same in Sweden as well. You can simply choose to do your driving exam with an automatic, but then you are not allowed to drive with a manual transmission.
Also, a year or two ago was the first year where half the new cars sold were automatic. The first time I ever tried driving an automatic was actually when first driving my own car; we bought our car just before I got my license, so I couldn't test drive it then but I could drive it home when it was delivered. I quickly decided that I would not ever be getting a car with manual transmission.
This is especially funny to me since I'm working on Need for Speed which is all about car culture, where people have a lot of passion for driving stick.
Manual transmissions could offer 2 advantages today:
1) They are most likely cheaper and lighter than automatics. They make more sense in cheap small cars. So if cost is an issue you may opt for this.
2) They could be more fun, depending on the car they're on. There are people who genuinely enjoy being engaged while taking a drive for fun. The more disconnected you get and the more stuff is done for you, the more it feels like you're a passenger instead of the driver. It's not just about getting better mileage, or better acceleration. The manual can be part of the fun.
For almost all other purposes an automatic transmission is the comfortable, efficient choice.
This being said, automatic transmissions can still be infuriating in some corner cases where they just can't pick the right gear. As long as there's a way to shift manually that shouldn't be a problem.
There are people who genuinely enjoy being engaged while taking a drive for fun. The more disconnected you get and the more stuff is done for you, the more it feels like you're a passenger instead of the driver.
As someone who drives both automatic and manual cars, and rides (manual) motorcycles, I take umbrage with this sentiment. It regularly gets trotted out in these types of discussions and is used as a way to dismiss anyone with a different view.
If you don't feel engaged while driving an automatic, the problem is with you, not the transmission. You may find manual shifting gratifying or fun, but if you need that to feel engaged then you need to stop and think about what your mind is doing while driving.
> is used as a way to dismiss anyone with a different view
I'm sorry but being offended that some people might like something different than what you like is not complimenting you at all. You complain about others dismissing your point of view while you're dismissing their point of view. And you completely ignore the fact that I didn't state it as a universal truth. It's even highlighted: "could be more fun". Your argument revolves around "I don't understand it or like it so it must be wrong". Under no circumstance do I have to like the same things as you to be right. When talking about my tastes I am always right. No exception. If you don't feel like this applies to you then it just means you're not in the target group for my statement.
The rest of your comment is just insulting which doesn't help you make a point or even make you sound like a reasonable person.
I don't enjoy riding a motorcycle but you don't see me offended by the fact that you do. Maybe you feel engaged snoozing in the train. Don't hate the people whose minds like more. And don't contradict or insult them about what they want or like. Makes you look petty and insecure. If you need validation for your tastes this is definitely not the way to go about it.
> Also could I go to a developing country, get a licence there, then it is valid in the UK and America?
Depends on the country you get the license from. https://www.gov.uk/exchange-foreign-driving-licence has a simple click through questionaire that implies your 3rd world license would be valid for 12 months. Looks like you can also get an IDP [0] which will be recognised in most places in the world, but again only valid for 12 months.
The US doesn't care if you took the test using a manual or automatic, so that restriction wouldn't be recognized. You'd get a ticket (or whatever the appropriate action is for the offense) for whatever reason the cop pulled you over.
I am probably using the wrong terminology. I guess there are reciprocal agreements between countries to recognise each others driving licences. I'm not sure whether that counts as international law.
"What if I have an Automatic Driving Licence (UK) and I go to America and rent a Stick Shift then the Police pull me over?"
First off, you would have to find a rental manual transmission. I don't know if I have ever seen a manual in all the times I have rented here in the U.S.
The police will not care about that status on your license. They probably will not notice it.
In India & Middle East too, if you take driving test in Manual, you can drive both Manual & Automatic. If the licence says Automatic, it is Automatic only.
Same with prices, repairs; Auto are expensive than Manual.
Sort of fits in to the more general point that we Europeans mostly drove smaller, cheaper cars with fewer luxuries.
The basic model, no frills European car still comes (here in Ireland) with manual transmission, manual windows (at least in the back), no Aircon (heater/fan only), no cruise control...
Since there are a lot of these, it's what people are used to, and they keep driving manuals.
Idk if Americans have ever really bought many nissan micra-esque cars.
i doubt the automatic transmission itself cost 4700€, most likely combined with most luxurious equipment
and dacia it's not good example, they produced budget cars and their prices for standard features of other brands are extreme, for 14000€ you would be insane to buy sandero
Here in the Netherlands I see most people going automatic when the are often in traffic jams and their knees start to complain from constantly having to push the clutch.
Automatic transmissions are therefore regarded as either boring, or for people who do not have the skills to drive a manual.
I drive a car with an automatic transmission and people always ask me why I'd drive a 'boring' car. Then I explain it is actually 'sporty' because it has paddle shifters (which I never use), and suddenly it becomes acceptable again.