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Venezuela has a totalitarian government who nationalized industries and implemented heavy price controls, putting those who don’t comply in jail (or to death by government militia).

I can’t imagine how this could even be compared to market economies such as Denmark or Sweden.



In America, the general view seems to be that any move from politicians to move towards economies like Denmark and Sweden are "socialist". Therefore they conflated to have no difference between Denmark and Venezuela and the USSR.

It's an extention of the absolutism in politics that has grown more and more, especially I think since 2008.


I'm not sure why you were downvoted, this isn't entirely incorrect per se.

In political dialog, too often "socialism" and "communism" are equated together in this country incorrectly. Venezuela and Sweden usually aren't directly compared together, but what happens is that failed authoritarian central-planned nations like Venezuela are often used as boogeymen against "socialism" in general, including socialist policies (like, say, a universal healthcare -- which is not socialist per se, but has some elements if there is large central planning) that have nothing to do with why Venezuela failed, and are implemented with some decent success in other countries.

Heck our own current president even used Venezuela as a boogeyman against "socialism" in general fairly recently. (https://www.newsweek.com/trump-was-laughed-world-leaders-dis...)


It nationalized oil - just like norway :)

As for price controls, this happens all the time in countries in the west, ranging from farming subsidies to taxes on sugary foods. Another example where this often happens is minimum price controls per unit of alcohol

Yes the government hasn't been great at human rights, but that doesn't make it socialist.


It’s nothing like Norway, no matter how many smiley faces you put over the citizens killed by the Venezuelan government.

Price controls are a socialist measure. Name a country that has impelemented Venezuela-style price control, where business owners either sell at government-defined prices of face imprisonment, and you’ll spot a socialist leader doing it “for the people”.


The UK. You cannot sell alchohol too cheaply. We have price controls per unit. There are literally thousands of such controls in most contries.

California. They control the price of electricity in the state.

And yes, these are laws. If you break them, you go to prison.


Are you being purposefully dense? I’m not talking about isolated price controls in a few products. I’m talking about generalized price controls that cause shortages and hunger. I’m talking about going to jail for trying to sell food above the price you bought it from a producer.

Do you honestly believe Norway, the UK and California are anything like that?


But I am objecting to the idea that doing these things makes a country communist. I will refer again to the generalised food price controls during wartime in the USA and beyond - were these countries communist at that time?

For another example of a country that has wide-ranging price controls on basic foodstuffs, look to the 2008 situation in mexico.


No, price controls are always counterproductive, but they don’t automatically make a country communist. I never said they did. In fact I never used the word communist in this discussion until now.

Venezuela is socialist because it combines destructive economic measures with collectivist ideology, takeover of institutions like the Supreme Court by Party supporters, violent government-backed militias, fraudulent elections, cult of personality, etc.

In summary, all the usual traits of a totalitarian left wing government.


> Venezuela is socialist because it combines destructive economic measures with collectivist ideology, takeover of institutions like the Supreme Court by Party supporters, violent government-backed militias, fraudulent elections, cult of personality, etc.

Except for the phrase “collectivist ideology”, none of that has anything to do with socialism at all.


In theory? Maybe. In the real world those traits have been present every time.


> In the real world those traits have been present every time.

No, they haven't. There's a whole lot of places that have had socialism will without any of them (and lots of non-socialist regimes with all of them.)


Those things are also present in lots of places that are not at all communist.

Correlation does not imply causation. It also doesn't mean they are literally the same thing.

Consider zimbabwe or libya or syria - they all have these things and I don't imagine you consider them all communist.


Well, Mugabe was a Marxist. Gaddafi's government was the "Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya". I don't know if Assad has any ideology, but his party is the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party, and he has been supported by Venezuelan and Nicaraguan dictators, Algeria's National Liberation Front, South Africa's ANC, etc.


Every single one of the things that you just listed are present in a many parts of the developing world. Most of these places are not considered communist.

In fact I would say those things you said perfectly describe a country that is a Dictatorship - but there are lots of those that are not socialist.

I assumed that you thought they were communist because you disagreed with my original post which claimed that they were not.


The term “dictatorship of the proletariat” is not a coincidence.


You seem to be making the argument that all dictatorships are communist. I can assure you this is not true, and would be surprised if you cannot think of any examples of non-communist dictators.


I'm making the argument in the opposite direction. Communism and socialism end up as dictatorships, when not already bootstrapped as one.


There’s a difference between min price control and max price control.


That's why I gave two examples. One with a min control and one of a max price control.


FDR during WW2? What about the USA during the 70s, by that famous socialist named Nixon.




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