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I have money for whatever reason. I pump it through a business of mine, paying taxes, etc. Normally this is totally fine - I'm not using it to commit fraud against investors, I'm paying taxes, etc. The important thing is that no one is being harmed, it's just me seeking some privacy in my own finances, and perhaps losing some money for the privilege (I may be spending post-tax money).

Or perhaps it's simpler than that. I have a bunch of money in geographic location A, and I want to spend it in B, so I put it in a suitcase and walk/fly/drive on over.

Now LE comes along and says, gee whiz, our jobs are really hard having to catch criminals doing criminal stuff. You know, let's make it illegal to use your money as you like, to have any sort of privacy in your transactions. Tada, now they can just go after people for moving money around.

The sad thing is, they've won. They've made "money laundering" sound like something serious, instead of totally made up to make their jobs easy, and people seem to support such laws.

Maybe they'll call encryption "data laundering", "bit smuggling", "safety obstruction" or something catchy to get people against it.



Money laundering is lying on federal documents, claiming your business is making more than it really is. And there's no reason to do it unless you've gotten the money illegally: otherwise you could just report to the IRS why you really have that money. And you suggest people are/should be able to lie on federal forms in the name of privacy?


If it is known (proven beyond a reasonable doubt) that the money was acquired illegally, then mission accomplished. Convict them of the actual crime. If not, then the "crime" of moving money around in unconventional ways does seem pretty bogus - a way to punish someone on a hunch without the hassle of actually producing evidence. Much like when police search for drugs and fail to find anything, so they just take any money they find instead.


Often the actual laundering process is done by a third party who takes a cut. A middleman who provides money laundering as a service to criminals. Under your scheme that person wouldn't be committing a crime and could not be prosecuted.

But that's beside the point. The crime isn't "moving money around in unconventional ways," it's lying to the IRS and other government agencies. It's signing your name on all those tax documents that say "under penalty of perjury" after filling them in with false information.


If someone commits perjury, convict them of perjury. There's no need to invent yet another crime. But I suspect it's not perjury. If a laundromat has an extra $500k of income and reports it as income, paying all relevant taxes, then so be it. If there is proof that the money came from criminal activity, then convict someone of that crime. Otherwise it's just a hunch.


One of the purposes of making money laundering a crime is that it makes it possible to investigate other crimes. You know the mob is making money and you know they're moving that money around somehow. Making money laundering a crime gives investigators a place to start their investigations. If they think a laundromat is a front for the mob, they can prove that by counting how many people are using it and comparing that to how much money they're putting in the bank at the end of the month. They can then get a warrant to investigate further. A judge shouldn't issue a warrant on a laundromat for investigating a murder when there's no clear thread that connects the two. A judge could however issue a warrant to investigate money laundering when you know the laundromat's books don't add up.


And thusly we went full-circle back to the OP:

Now LE comes along and says, gee whiz, our jobs are really hard having to catch criminals doing criminal stuff. You know, let's make it illegal to use your money as you like, to have any sort of privacy in your transactions. Tada, now they can just go after people for moving money around.


Investigating organized crime would be significantly harder without being able to follow a paper trail. I'd rather have the police be able to get legitimate warrants to investigate actually suspicious activity than have them operate by illegal and unethical means.


Making it a crime serves as a deterrent for illegal activity. So when you prove the money came from criminal activity you can convict them for the criminal activity and the money laundering.


This seems similar to how we punish some crimes worse if you thought something mean about the person you committed the crime against.


What lie is required? You buy 1000 pizzas a day from your pizza store, with cash you already have. You report all that income to the IRS. Where's the lie?

Edit: Keep in mind if your original money you evaded taxes on, that's already a crime. As is committing crimes, if that's how you got the money. "Laundering" is just a non-crime used to make LE's job easy, expanding power and reducing privacy. AML and KYC laws are an affront to liberty.


> You buy 1000 pizzas a day from your pizza store, with cash you already have. You report all that income to the IRS.

So, assuming that money isn't illicitly gotten, I'm pretty sure that's not money laundering.


It's not my job to prove the money is acquired legally, it's the investigator's job to prove otherwise.


You don't have to prove that that money is obtained legally. You do have to refrain from knowingly transacting with illegally obtained money. If a reasonable person would be aware that the money you are handling is not acquired legally, you can be found culpable.

You can say it's "not your job" all you like--if you are operating in the United States, you are not correct and it would go very poorly for you to try.


Yeah but in order to do that they need a warrant. If you're moving around money like that, it's very likely you got that money illegally. I'm no fan of the police, but sometimes following the paper trail is the only place to start an investigation. I'd rather the police be able to get a legitimate warrant to investigate something than have them operate in lesd than legal ways.


Three is no lie, and there is no money laundering. The problem is if you order 1000 pizzas, you are charged for them, the pizza place claims they made then, but they only delivered 1000 empty boxes... Now there is laundering going on.


There's only a lie if you don't make the pizzas.


>What lie is required? You buy 1000 pizzas a day from your pizza store, with cash you already have. You report all that income to the IRS. Where's the lie?

1. I'm not sure why you'd do that. You'd have to pay taxes on the money twice as ordering pizzas is not tax deducible.

2. You'd then have to make 1000 pizzas.


I don't think you understand what money laundering is.




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