> I find its the person who is applying that has the power not the company
I think you are assuming the person applying has some sort of safety net (a current job, savings, alternate income.) That is where the BATNA comes into play. Sure, if you are already making an acceptable amount of money to meet your needs, aren't overworked/over-stressed, and relatively satisfied then you are indeed in a position of power. If you need to get hired some place within 2 months and have been having trouble getting a job then you very well might not be in a position of power. Not all people have the ability to walk away.
So you hire someone in a weaker position for less or even exactly what they're worth: 6 months later, when they're now in a stronger (employed) position, they find a new employer and you're stuck with the ramp-up and churn tab.
It's a seller's market right now. The biggest advantage an employer holds is the disparity in information; most underpaid people aren't aware they're underpaid.
Then the person applying will be in a position of weakness. That to me is letting "worry" even if real drag you down. I think when you really need something it is even more important to negotiate from a position of strength, if not they will sense it and pick it apart.
In some ways its much like dating, does anyone really want the desperate type ?
"Always be able to walk away" is not very good advice to people who don't have the option to walk away, whether people should always have that option or not in a perfect world. "Pretend you're able to walk away" possibly is, but not everyone's good at playing games like that.
The alternative to not working is, eventually, losing almost everything you have. The alternative to not having a romantic partner is, well, not having a romantic partner. You're not going to die from lack of love.
"always be able to walk away" to me includes never allowing yourself to be in a position where you cant walk away. I think of that as an actual survival trait not just a business skill.
I would also say never pretend, actually be willing to walk away. Someone good at psychology or picking up subtle clues will see right through pretending.
Anyway you slice it being desperate is never good, don't be desperate.
> In some ways its much like dating, does anyone really want the desperate type ?
I think this question has been answered and studied quite well. If you have a significant lapse in employment (with or without explanation) or are obviously needy, prospective employers will have negative biases that directly translate into less compensation.
That is exactly what I'm saying. They are in a position of weakness. Their BATNA is losing everything they have. You don't need to be desperate, but you can't be as cut-throat.
You have valid points that I think are very much worth considering and should be. I appreciate good convo in threads like this so didn't want to come across as trying to be petty or battling your perspective. Also yes I understood your point :)
Same here. I totally agree with the fact that you should always be negotiating and don't sell yourself short by thinking you don't deserve what you are worth.
Even in that position you can still negotiate though. A good company won't revoke an offer simply because you asked for more money. And if they won't budge on salary you can ask for more vacation time, etc.
I think you are assuming the person applying has some sort of safety net (a current job, savings, alternate income.) That is where the BATNA comes into play. Sure, if you are already making an acceptable amount of money to meet your needs, aren't overworked/over-stressed, and relatively satisfied then you are indeed in a position of power. If you need to get hired some place within 2 months and have been having trouble getting a job then you very well might not be in a position of power. Not all people have the ability to walk away.