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The funny part about this is that even with all this technology the USSR would still have fallen, because Russia is a poor country geographically.

Conformance enforcement only gets you more of the same behaviour. It denies access to variation that engenders innovation.

Exploration vs exploitation.


> Russia is a poor country geographically

Leviathan vs Behemoth. Russia could be a strong land power, à la Rome. America is a maritime power, ruling via alliances and trade, à la Carthage. (Or Athens. Or the British or Dutch.)


Europe is in for a very long decline. There is no consumer generation (35-45 y/o) left in Europe, and the US is about to block Europe from exporting their excess production to the last standing consumer generation on the planet.


Which one?


The US is threatened by the rise of both China and India. India seems to be quite capable of sabotaging itself however.


We are about to be called on to automate everything, because we are short workers. And we will be for a decade.

That's what you get for replacing the worlds largest generation, the Boomers, with the worlds smallest generation, the Zoomers.


Then what would the generation in between be called? Groomers? Pushing their children to places with higher class expectations with minimal effort?


More like the Doomers. Realizing it's all...


> On total whimsy, I tried Flutter. I downloaded it, and built "Hello World" for macOS. Not only did it take an eternity to compile (on my modern, SSD enabled, eleventy gigablip iMac), the result was 108MB. And that was just for the Mac version, I'd need 2 others for Linux and Windows. The compile time was glacial (I know, its got hot reloading to speed things up).

I'm curious how you got 108mb. Here's what I'm seeing:

  $ flutter --version
  Flutter 3.0.4 • channel stable • 
  https://github.com/flutter/flutter
  Framework • revision 85684f9300 (7 days ago) • 2022-06-30 13:22:47 -0700
  Engine • revision 6ba2af10bb
  Tools • Dart 2.17.5 • DevTools 2.12.2
  $ flutter create hello_world && cd hello_world
  Creating project hello_world...
  Running "flutter pub get" in hello_world...                      1,764ms
  Wrote 127 files.

  All done!
  In order to run your application, type:

    $ cd hello_world
    $ flutter run

  Your application code is in hello_world/lib/main.dart.

  $ flutter build macos

  Building with sound null safety

  Building macOS application...

  $ du -ah build/macos/Build/Products/Release/hello_world.app | tail -1
   44M build/macos/Build/Products/Release/hello_world.app
Note, the release build is significantly smaller than the debug build, which includes a full Dart VM for hot swapping application code:

  $ flutter build macos --debug

  Building with sound null safety

  Building macOS application...

  $ du -ah build/macos/Build/Products/Debug/hello_world.app | tail -1
   98M build/macos/Build/Products/Debug/hello_world.app
Note, on the glacial compiles, here is what I'm seeing on my M1 mac laptop:

  $ time flutter build macos

  Building with sound null safety

  Building macOS application...
  flutter build macos  1.20s user 0.59s system 47% cpu 3.801 total
It's slower than building web pages in vim, but this is comparable with compiling desktop applications in Xcode.

Disclosure: I'm a Developer Relations Engineer for Flutter


44 megabytes is still quite large, is what the parent is trying to say. I don't know enough about binary sizes but it seems that it could be smaller.


No, the parent is trying to say that hello world is 108MB which is not true at all.

Hard to make a good point about binary size when they outright lie.


I mean sure, but I presume they weren't talking directly about the exact size but that other desktop apps can be built for (at least) an order of magnitude fewer megabytes. In other words, it's not exactly 108MB that they really care about, it's that Qt or other frameworks could make a hello world app at 10MB. That's how I interpreted their comments anyway.


If you want a sneak preview of the functionality that can be delivered in Flutter at about the 100mb mark, sign up for the beta of https://www.superlist.com/


Well if it's as laggy as your homepage then that's not saying much. On my phone I can't even scroll down without lagging.


Looks like they probably didn't lie but built the debug version by mistake.


I'm curious which operating systems people are still waiting for. We have delivered Windows, macOS and Linux on stable as of Flutter 3. We don't have plans to add more, but people in the community are working on things like embedded Linux: https://github.com/sony/flutter-embedded-linux

Disclosure: I'm a Developer Relations Engineer for Flutter


Thanks for the update, although it should be pointed out that that was apparently very recent, as in May 2022. It's not like it's been there and makes my comment that people have been waiting on it inaccurate. I wasn't aware of stable macOS and Linux support, so thanks for pointing it out. As far as I know, Windows was the first to get stable desktop support from Flutter, and that was just at the very beginning of this year. Even now, the official Flutter Desktop webpage links back to that release as "new": https://flutter.dev/multi-platform/desktop

Flutter still cannot manage multiple windows on desktop, which makes it a no-go for my use cases, and it doesn't look like it's coming anytime soon: https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/30701. The original issue has been sitting around for four years.


We are aware that multiple windows is an area of interest for potential users of the desktop platform. You can see the proposed API we have published for feedback: https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/11_4wntz_9IJTQOo_Qhp7...


Also a comment from May saying that it’s under active development at the moment.


Fwiw, there is a viable work around. Android (and iOS) usage of the Google Maps APIs remain free. See the Mobile Native Dynamic Maps line on our pricing sheet: https://cloud.google.com/maps-platform/pricing/sheet/

You can construct API keys that are restricted to an Android signing key, use it for the duration of the class, and then revoke it after the course work is done.


Oh wow... why is this not mentioned higher? Big break for me that iOS and Android remain free


I'm enjoying reading it. =)


It needs (or, past tense ...) to be configured before it's available. On the apps configuration page...


You'd imagine wrong, if my past experience is anything to go by.


This is a question of perception. Faced with something that doesn't make sense, a geek will see it as a challenge, a puzzle, a worthy adversary. Geeks love challenges.

A lot of people don't. I have many people who have me on speed dial for when they feel like tossing their laptops out the window. It's for these people that the iPad is designed.

All of this "death of tinkering" shows me that none of you guys actually take the time to understand people other than yourselves, and this whole movement speaks to just how self centered the whole geek tribe is.

It disturbs me.


I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. To the extent that the iPad makes computing more accessible to more people, that's a good thing. The problem is with the entirely separate issue of Apple actively putting roadblocks in the way of those of us who would like to customize it.


He's disagreeing with the idea that those two issues are in any way separate.


It's an odd kind of challenge when you get arrested, tried and sentenced for succeeding.


Quite a broad brush...


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